cars and LLP Partners

tax treatment

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we ave just taken over a new (to us) LLP client.  Client is extremely concerned because the P11ds for the partners cars have not yet been filed.  We have copies of the P11ds which they believe need to be filed.

This is a proper trading LLP.  Surely partner cars (and they are not salaried partners) are treated the same as for a regular partner in a partnership and do not need to be reported on a P11d?  Or am I missing something?

Thanks

Still struggling with covid...............

Replies (10)

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By snickersinatwix
11th Oct 2022 11:30

just to add - previous accountant seems to think a 11d is due as well

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By K81
11th Oct 2022 13:52

P11D's are for reporting benefits in kind received from employment - partnerships should allow for the cars through the accounts.

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By Matrix
11th Oct 2022 13:57

It sounds as if the tax returns are wrong if no private use adjustments were made.

Hope you feel better soon.

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By snickersinatwix
11th Oct 2022 14:21

Thanks all - this is exactly what i thought, but you start to doubt yourself when someone tells you something different..................

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By Paul Crowley
12th Oct 2022 01:05

One more agreeing that it is a partnership
P11ds are for employees
Sounds like prior years are wrong and the previous accountant needs to rethink his choices about acting for LLPs

I am confused with the way the personal tax returns were compiled.
The p11ds would been to be on an employment page.
The same 'employer' that is named on the partnership pages
This would bypass any tax return logic checking, cos nobody would be looking for it
Unless the cars are all electric then, chances are, they saved money by coming to you

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By Tax Dragon
12th Oct 2022 05:55

The citation is s4 LLPA.

Be careful with what you read online (in this forum as much as anywhere), but I quite like this piece from about a year ago: https://www.bkl.co.uk/insights/llp-employee-or-member-peter-wilson-2021/ (obviously it's light touch).

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Paul Crowley
12th Oct 2022 10:39

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61543f73d3bf7f71919a7fcf/...

As in your link
Really disappointed that this was a chartered accountant. It is usually the legal profession that tries to see the word black and pretend that it was meant to include the word white
A partner in Haines Watts

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By sallyrichardson
12th Oct 2022 11:52

We took over from an advisor who had added a Sole Trader to his own PAYE as an employee. She seemed amazed when I mentioned that this wasn't quite right. It's amazing that these people are actually still in business.

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By jon_griffey
10th Nov 2022 14:57

OK - lets throw this in. What if the LLP was a mixed partnership, i.e. included a Ltd co, which is owned by the individual LLP members who are directors and that Ltd gets a profit share. Could the cars provided to the members by the LLP cause P11D's in the Ltd?

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Replying to jon_griffey:
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By Tax Dragon
10th Nov 2022 22:32

Could? I guess, but I don't think it would be the norm/default.

I'm assuming of course that, as a fact, the car is provided by reason of the individual being a member of the LLP, not by reason of the employment with the company.

Re the deeming rules (ie the ones that treat something as employment related even if in fact it might not be) cf s117 (which mentions only the employer) with say s174 (which lists various potential parties with a link to the employer) or [moving outside the benefits code for this example] s421B(3) (which cuts to the chase and includes anyone connected with the employer). I'm not aware of (and don't think there is) a general rule in the benefits code (or indeed ITEPA) about provision by persons connected with the employer... indeed if there were such a general rule, s174 in particular seems rather odd.

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