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Ciamar a tha sibh?

Gaelic learning.

Company has three directors, one of whom is fluent and the other two have some Gaelic.

The company would like put in place a policy to increase the use of Gaelic in the workplace and when meeting Gaelic-speaking customers.

Can the company foot the bill for language classes, courses etc?

Tapadh leibh, (ta much).

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12th Dec 2018 13:39

The company can pay what it likes, and claim a CT deduction if the expenditure can be shown to fit the wholly & exclusively test. If it wants to make the training tax-free for the employees, they have to get within ITEPA s250 for work-related training, or ensure that attendance on the course is a contractual obligation for the worker so that the costs are incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in the performance of the duties.

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to David Heaton
12th Dec 2018 14:16

I thought tonycourt was being too liberal in his interpretation of s251 (my apologies, I cannot find that thread now - there was one where an IT nerd's girlfriend wanted to learn acupuncture or something).

You are being too conservative. "WE+N in the performance of" is not (for fairly obvious reasons) a condition.

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to Tax Dragon
12th Dec 2018 15:11

I think you missed the OR in David's response. If the conditions of the work-related training exemption are not met, the cost would still not give rise to a taxable benefit, if a corresponding expense deduction could be given s 365 and s 336. That would necessitate the deemed expense have been incurred WE+N in the performance of the employment duties, which could only be the case if it was a duty of the employment.

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to Vile Nortin Naipaan
12th Dec 2018 15:05

Guilty as charged - I read too quickly and owe David an apology.

Maybe I was too distracted because the thread I was looking for ("Paying uni fees for my wife via new company") had been removed. That's yet another really annoying feature of the management of this site - interesting discussions which could form useful points of reference get removed, totally pointless threads remain by the bucketload.

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By DJKL
12th Dec 2018 13:48

Where are they based though I doubt it really matters. I suppose one could argue need if push came to shove.

If Western Isles they frankly ought not need to learn as they will likely already speak if brought up there, unless things have changed.

Back in the 1980s during my apprenticeship I worked in Stornoway for 5-6 weeks a year (auditing) over two years and even in the 1990s we had a few clients from the islands. When clients wanted to communicate with one another when I was in the room Gaelic would sometimes be employed, seemed everyone spoke Gaelic.

Re your question, if you employed staff who did not speak English do you think it would be reasonable to pay for them to learn English?

My gut feeling is the employer can pay, my only concern is would the cost require to go on staff P11d , not a topic I am particularly hot on, I hate P11Ds.

As an aside my wife's employer (investment Bank) back in the 1990s paid for staff to refresh French at the French Institute in Edinburgh, little relevance to their work and nothing ever featured on my wife's P11D

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By MJShone
12th Dec 2018 13:53

Is being able to speak/read Gaelic likely to be useful to the directors? Sound like it if they're going to be using it with Gaelic-speaking customers. It's therefore likely to qualify.

See here onwards: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim01220

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12th Dec 2018 13:56

Tha gu math, tapadh leibh. Ciamar a tha sibh fein ?

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By DJKL
to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 14:03

"Comhairle nan Eilean Siar", there I have exhausted my vocab.

I am far better at Italian as i know the words for invoice, jacket, trousers and shirt- I used to work for a chain of Benetton shops.

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to DJKL
12th Dec 2018 14:19

I know a fair few words. I pick them up off road signs mostly. Putting together a sentence is a different kettle of fish. Another snag is that I've picked up Irish words in the same way and I'm never sure which language I'm speaking.

Road Sign Gaelic - it's a new way to learn.

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By DJKL
to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 15:16

Bit like some of my acquired Swedish but in my case with excruciatingly bad pronunciation -words like gard (farm) tor (high ground-same as here) luckily a few of the locals patiently try to correct my mangling of their native tongue.

The Swedish word you see everywhere there is S*l*u*t, denoting an end to usually sales/final sales, but somewhat disconcerting when appended to a window display mannequin.

The other great Swedish word is of course F*a*r*t (means speed), especially if you spot a sign for a Swedish police "fartkontroll' area.

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By DJKL
to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 15:45

Bit like some of my acquired Swedish but in my case with excruciatingly bad pronunciation -words like gard (farm) tor (high ground-same as here) luckily a few of the locals patiently try to correct my mangling of their native tongue.

The Swedish word you see everywhere there is S*l*u*t, denoting an end to usually sales/final sales, but somewhat disconcerting when appended to a window display mannequin.

The other great Swedish word is of course F*a*r*t (means speed), especially if you spot a sign for a Swedish police "fartkontroll' area.

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By sparish
to lionofludesch
14th Dec 2018 11:23

One of the few Welsh words i know is "Araf" ie "Slow"

It is written on the road on every downhill stretch in the hilly areas.

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to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 15:13

Tha an cnatan orm agus tha mi sgith - thanks for asking!

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12th Dec 2018 14:12

Thank you all.

The directors will be disappointed missing out on the associated cultural research...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZEp0Jlb954

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to airgeadagam
12th Dec 2018 14:33

I'd claim.

It's good PR for employees to be able to speak the customers' first language. The fact that they have a common language in English is irrelevant.

If we were discussing learning Welsh at a business based in Bala, there'd be no argument. It would be accepted as a business expense. I don't see why learning Gaelic in a Gaelic speaking area is any different.

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12th Dec 2018 15:09

Indeed, Welsh featured in my thoughts too.
In Glasgow there were grants at one time (possibly still are) for businesses featuring Gaelic on vans and hoardings.

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12th Dec 2018 15:11

we'll all have to learn gaelic soon as we'll be expected to man the backstop...

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to memyself-eye
12th Dec 2018 15:20

Gaelic and Irish - similar, but not the same language.

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By DJKL
to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 15:50

Does not cause them any issues in Braveheart, the Irish come flying across the battlefield at the Scots then stop and they all are best friends-language not an issue.

Surely Braveheart is authentic, Wallace sleeps with Edward the second's bride etc

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to DJKL
12th Dec 2018 15:58

Erm - probably not.

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By DJKL
to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 16:16

I'm so disappointed.

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to lionofludesch
12th Dec 2018 17:00

Gutted.

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12th Dec 2018 21:07

Airgead agam?

Chan eil ach sgillin agam...

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12th Dec 2018 22:10

I'm going to have to get mo faclair out.

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