CIS separate from Payroll?

Didn't find your answer?

CIS always seems to be done mixed in with payroll. 
I'm not aware of any stand-alone CIS-only products - is that because there isn't any demand?

I've created one at https://cis300.com/ so I guess we'll see once I start marketing it

It handles recording of invoices and payments (I'll probably integrate with Xero for this as well at some point) as well as verification, CIS300 returns and monthly subcontractor statements.

In terms of future developments I can either take it towards the the contractor world - project management type stuff - or towards  the subcontractor and add timesheets, etc.

Is this something you see any use for? Or will CIS always be processed alongside payroll?

Replies (12)

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By carnmores
13th Jun 2024 11:58

Hi Duane, will you be providing this personally or via Iris?

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Duane Jackson
By DuaneJAckson
13th Jun 2024 12:04
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By johnthegood
13th Jun 2024 12:42

If I was to offer your some advice it would be to remove your Staffology tag, it was just about the worst and most expensive software we have used in over 25 years and the first chance we got we ditched it, I honestly cannot say enough bad things about it!

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Danny Kent
By Viciuno
13th Jun 2024 14:41

For a contractor to deduct CIS they must be registered for PAYE. It's very unlikely you will have a contractor without employees (even if only directors). Payroll software is probably already there.

Think you are marketing to a niche of a niche. Not in a good way either, if they are too small to have dedicated payroll software they will almost certainly be too small to pay a decent fee for a piece of software eventually. Or they will simply outgrow you.

You can already submit CIS returns, send out monthly statements and run a sales and purchase ledger through Xero - what would you be bringing to the table?

If you are going to tailor to anyone, it would be the contractor themselves. Accountants already have plenty of options so would not be your target market.

Possibly some scope for the gang leader type contractor arrangement where they can submit "timesheets" for review, all their verification details (so it's done before payment), and then that generates a bill on Xero with CIS. Would need to be able to add deductions from payments for things like recharges of costs (protective clothing, repairs for damaged work etc). If the contractors could have an app that they "clock in" with, possibly be able to add details of the jobs they are working on as well.

I've been thinking software that does the latter would be useful for quite some time, so if you do pivot in that direction keep us updated!

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By Sandnickel
13th Jun 2024 16:55

I would look towards recruiters / agencies as these are more likely to have separate functions for CIS and payroll (often separate companies under the same brand). It's more likely to have a separate function in those circumstances. I do agree that it's likely to have already been looked at and integrated as much as possible into the payroll function however.

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By rmillaree
13th Jun 2024 17:26

i agree with Viciuno think you are marketing to a niche of a niche

thats not to say niche might not be something useful to you.

Note moneysoft only charged £86 plus vat pa for payroll and up to 20 subbies - so pretty much anyone who wants payroll would be better off using moneysfot rather than your service to have benefit of everything being in one place

note sage cloud allow you to submit for free and there is basic tools.

perhaps someone who pays someone to run payroll but wanst to do cis themselves might be be the main niche - but doing it via xero/freeagent or sage fro those cases is better as you get teh acounting categories right at the start

Ona more positive note - if you could link to bank feed and pull through the payments from that feed that might be of use - for most jobs like this half the battle is normally finding the relevant bank entries

i note you can do invoices so perhaps some of the options here may make it work on "ease of use" if something just works well than in itself may generate business

Thanks (1)
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By rmillaree
13th Jun 2024 17:26

i agree with Viciuno think you are marketing to a niche of a niche

thats not to say niche might not be something useful to you.

Note moneysoft only charged £86 plus vat pa for payroll and up to 20 subbies - so pretty much anyone who wants payroll would be better off using moneysfot rather than your service to have benefit of everything being in one place

note sage cloud allow you to submit for free and there is basic tools.

perhaps someone who pays someone to run payroll but wanst to do cis themselves might be be the main niche - but doing it via xero/freeagent or sage fro those cases is better as you get teh acounting categories right at the start

Ona more positive note - if you could link to bank feed and pull through the payments from that feed that might be of use - for most jobs like this half the battle is normally finding the relevant bank entries

i note you can do invoices so perhaps some of the options here may make it work on "ease of use" if something just works well than in itself may generate business

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By FactChecker
13th Jun 2024 23:47

You've obviously been successful previously ... but I'm puzzled by your question:
"I'm not aware of any stand-alone CIS-only products - is that because there isn't any demand?"
followed by "I've created one".

Don't you usually ascertain demand (if only at a simplistic level) *before* starting development - unless it's only basic prototyping?

I guess I'm asking whether the post is really just an advert?
Or whether, however belatedly, you're doing a little market research?

If the latter, then you've got some useful hints already ... but my perspective is that in your shoes I'd only continue with it either as an entry-point into a niche sector or for fun. A stand-alone product that's already available bundled within most Payroll software isn't an obvious mass market opportunity.

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Replying to FactChecker:
Duane Jackson
By DuaneJAckson
14th Jun 2024 10:23

I don't really do a lot of market research before building something tbh - I didn't with KashFlow or Staffology.
With this specifically it was more "because I can" and it gave me something to do - and a practical project to refresh and update some specific technology skills.

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By Matrix
14th Jun 2024 07:09

Can you still submit through HMRC online? The impression I get from bookkeepers is that the hard part is getting accurate info in a short period, not how to submit.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By AdamJones82
14th Jun 2024 10:21

Yes you can

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Replying to AdamJones82:
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By Paul Crowley
14th Jun 2024 18:41

I do

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