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CJRS2 and holiday pay

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A pub has variable hours employees, some returning to work P/T under CJRS2. Some of those also want to take holidays. Holidays are usually in hours (not days), so may represent variable hours on different days.

I'm struggling to find anything that defines the calculation of the CJRS claim, given that CJRS is generally calculated on a weekly/monthly basis.

Would it just be the case of topping up by 20% of full pay for the number of hours holiday taken in any period, then calculate CJRS based on normal hours - (worked hours + holiday hours)?

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Caroline
By accountantccole
10th Jul 2020 09:04

SteveHa wrote:

Would it just be the case of topping up by 20% of full pay for the number of hours holiday taken in any period, then calculate CJRS based on normal hours - (worked hours + holiday hours)?

I think that is where I would end up

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Replying to accountantccole:
Caroline
By accountantccole
10th Jul 2020 09:06

Hold on - you can have holiday whilst furloughed so you don't need to disclaim that part?

Holiday Pay
Furloughed employees continue to accrue leave as per their employment contract.
The employer and employee can agree to vary holiday entitlement as part of the furlough agreement, however almost all workers are entitled to 5.6 weeks of statutory paid annual leave each year which they cannot go below.
Employees can take holiday while on furlough. If an employee is flexibly furloughed then any hours taken as holiday during the claim period should be counted as furloughed hours rather than working hours. Employees should not be placed on furlough for a period simply because they are on holiday for that period. Working Time Regulations require holiday pay to be paid at the employee’s normal rate of pay or, where the rate of pay varies, calculated on the basis of the average pay received by the employee in the previous 52 working weeks. Therefore, if a furloughed employee takes holiday, the employer should pay their usual holiday pay in accordance with the Working Time Regulations.

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Replying to accountantccole:
By SteveHa
10th Jul 2020 10:26

Yes, quite right. That was what I was thinking, but obviously not what I typed.

So, claim CJRS-worked hours, and pay, CJRS claim + 20% of holiday hours + 100% of worked hours?

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By legerman
10th Jul 2020 14:54

SteveHa wrote:

Yes, quite right. That was what I was thinking, but obviously not what I typed.

So, claim CJRS-worked hours, and pay, CJRS claim + 20% of holiday hours + 100% of worked hours?

The holiday hours will be at the current rate of pay and then claim furlough for the same hours based on average pay/previous period for 19-20. It doesn't necessarily compute that furlough will be 80% of holiday pay (which i hope is what you meant when you said CJRS claim + 20% of holiday hours as the reverse calculation is +25%)

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Replying to legerman:
By SteveHa
10th Jul 2020 15:17

You're right. I keep working on the mistaken assumption that there will be some logic to follow.

Actual pay, then = hours worked + holiday hours - (CJRS apportioned holiday x 80%) + CJRS

Where the final CJRS includes holiday CJRS. Which should, I hope, result in full pay for holidays.

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Replying to accountantccole:
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By tltodman
10th Jul 2020 14:21

Helpful. Thanks. Was going to ask where the quote was from but have now found it in the updated "check if you can claim" guidance https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus...

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By Wanderer
10th Jul 2020 09:11

SteveHa wrote:

I'm struggling to find anything that defines the calculation of the CJRS claim, given that CJRS is generally calculated on a weekly/monthly basis.

Not covered in this?:-
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
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Replying to Wanderer:
By SteveHa
10th Jul 2020 10:22

Not that I can see :/

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By Paul Hawes
10th Jul 2020 11:27

Won't holiday now just count as working hours as the employer has the work available but the employee is choosing to take time off?

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Replying to Paul Hawes:
By SteveHa
10th Jul 2020 11:59

Based on the only guidance I've been able to find (which is CJRS1), no.

Holidays can form a part of furlough, albeit made up to 100% of pay by the employer.

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Replying to Paul Hawes:
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By PandoraSleeps
10th Jul 2020 13:02

HMRC guidance says:
Employees can take holiday while on furlough. If an employee is flexibly furloughed then any hours taken as holiday during the claim period should be counted as furloughed hours rather than working hours. Employees should not be placed on furlough for a period simply because they are on holiday for that period. Working Time Regulations require holiday pay to be paid at the employee’s normal rate of pay or, where the rate of pay varies, calculated on the basis of the average pay received by the employee in the previous 52 working weeks. Therefore, if a furloughed employee takes holiday, the employer should pay their usual holiday pay in accordance with the Working Time Regulations.

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Replying to PandoraSleeps:
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By legerman
10th Jul 2020 14:58

PandoraSleeps wrote:

HMRC guidance says:
If an employee is flexibly furloughed then any hours taken as holiday during the claim period should be counted as furloughed hours rather than working hours. Employees should not be placed on furlough for a period simply because they are on holiday for that period..

So they should be on furlough but not on furlough. Who wrote that, Dominic Cummings?

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