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Class 2 National Insce not coming up on SA

Using the HMRC Self Assessment tool, the Class 2 National Insurance isn't appearing??

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Using the HMRC Self assessment tool, the Class 2 National Insurance isn't appearing.

The "view your calculation" says Class 2 NIC amount is not available - anyone else having that problem

BB

 

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By Matrix
26th Aug 2019 17:04

Is your client registered as self employed with the NI office?

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By Paul D Utherone
27th Aug 2019 08:28

Yes...is the short answer.

Slightly longer is that, as Matrix says, it will depend whether your client is registered as s/e on the NI system as that and the SA system are not linked in any way. The fact that the return includes s/e or partnership pages does not mean that HMRC systems will apply any form of common sense and realise that Class 2 NI will be relevant.

Is it a relatively new s/e? Did you submit as CWF1, or SA401 if they are a partner / member of an LLP? If not. there's your answer.

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By jon_griffey
27th Aug 2019 10:51

I found that the best way to solve this is to resubmit the online CWF1 form.

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By sijolees
27th Aug 2019 11:22

Another possibility is that the client worked abroad in the EU and applied for an A1 certificate. The NIC Office frequently take the Class 2 out of SA when this happens.

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By Jholm
27th Aug 2019 12:35

Ah s***, here we go again

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By fawltybasil2575
27th Aug 2019 13:18

@ buttercup books (OP).

Your question is another one in this same field, that question arising from the refusal of HMRC to ensure that two of its systems “talk to each other”, frankly due to the decision a few years ago to collect Class 2 NI along with Income Tax.

You have two options:-

(i) To “go for the easy life” by acquiescing in HMRC instructions to ensure that FORM CWF1 is submitted, as indicated by eminent members above, re the commencement of the self-employment/partnership income ; and then notifying the National Insurance office when the self-employment/partnership income has ceased.

Those HMRC instructions are summarised on PAGE 6 of the most recent HMRC “Agent Update” here:-

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

(ii) To take the PRINCIPLED stance that one should NOT bow to the HMRC “refusal” (per my opening sentence above), but instead to (on EACH occasion of HMRC error) insist that HMRC rectify the inaccuracies in their Tax Calculations (ie their omitting or miscalculating Class2 NI, especially in the opening and closing years of a self-employment/partnership, upon their receiving Self-Assessment Tax Returns).

It is open to you, and others, to determine whether you wish to operate option (i) or alternatively option (ii).

Basil.

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By berniebobbles
28th Aug 2019 09:55

To ensure you always pay your Class 2 National Insurance Contributions, simply Google “Form CA5601” download, print off and complete it - it is a Direct Debit Mandate to collect your Class 2 NICs either monthly or 6-monthly!

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Replying to berniebobbles:
RedFive
By RedFive
28th Aug 2019 11:24

Are you still living in 2016?

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By Jholm
28th Aug 2019 11:38

***Unpopular opinion warning***

I don't understand what is so tricky about this issue!

EVERY SINGLE TIME I have come across this, it is because they wrongly registered for self assessment via SA1, not self employment via CWF1.

Probe into it further and you will probably find that the long standing self employed people who have this issue also probably never paid class 2 by direct debit before the changes came in a few years ago. However, this never flashed in front of the eyes of the individual/taxpayer as much as it does now you can view the class 2 section online.

I wonder how many people owe a lot in class 2 because of failing to register properly.

Whilst I am sure there have been a few issues with these two systems, I do not believe anywhere near as many are solely due to HMRC systems as are stated on here.

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By buttercup books
28th Aug 2019 11:47

Thank you all for your replies,

These are all long standing clients who have all registered for Self Employment and for whom I've submitted SA for a number of years and always paid Class 2 NI in the past,

Am I the only one with this problem at the moment?

BB

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Replying to buttercup books:
By Paul D Utherone
28th Aug 2019 13:40

buttercup books wrote:

Am I the only one with this problem at the moment?

BB

No
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By berniebobbles
28th Aug 2019 12:12

In answer to Redfive, I am in 2019 and I have completed Forms CA5601 for a dozen or more clients in recent months. It will resolve the problem for 2019/20 and future years' Class 2 NICs. For any earlier years, to check if you have any missing payments or arrears, go to the following link:
https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/NIStatement
I recommend one does this every year!

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Replying to berniebobbles:
RedFive
By RedFive
28th Aug 2019 14:36

I mean no offence but the ability to pay Class 2 by direct debit stopped in 2016. The direct debit option is just for very *specific* jobs (such as minister of religion).

And you refer to completing a lengthy old style green online form when all you have to do is open yourself a Personal Tax Account (that EVERY brown envelope from HMRC insists you have) then within a few clicks you can see your whole lifes worth of NI contributions in an instant - along with your predicted state pension amount.

https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account

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Replying to RedFive:
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By berniebobbles
29th Aug 2019 11:57

Thanks again Redfive. Completing Form CA5601 ensures that Class 2 is always paid regardless of how low one's income is, especially if one's income is below the normal NIC threshold, as this protects one's pension and state benefits entitlement. HMRC tell me today that anyone who is registered as self-employed can opt to make use of Form CA5601. The abolition in 2016 was overturned when the government decided to retain Class 2 NICs permanently. As for opening a Gateway on-line account, this is NOT compulsory and some self-employed people do not have internet access or shy away from computers altogether, hence I have clients who rely on me to use the on-line NIC request form on their behalf and submit manual tax returns. Civil Servants are "your obedient servants" so make them do the paperwork!

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