Client Sage needs Tidying up

Client Sage needs Tidying up

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Hi There,

I work for a small accountancy practice and most of our clients do not use computerized accounting. However a particular client has been using the 2011 version of sage for there book keeping. We've done the accounts for 3 years. The client has not used sage correctly and hasn't even closed off the 13, 14 & 15 year, (I've just done 15). I've been asked sort there sage out, get each year matching our records and then closing each one off. The sage does not even balance. The client has never put adjustments through. I'm not generally a user of sage I just print the reports off, tick off what i need too and put it together manually. I've never done journals for sage. Can anybody suggest a method on what they would normally do? My boss hasn't got a clue as he's almost retired and does things the old way, I've asked for training in sage but I need answers now, plus this seems a messy one in the first place.

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By Duggimon
19th Jan 2016 14:33

There is a lot to address

You have more to do than I think we can address here but I would have two questions right off.

First, what's the point in making their Sage match your records? Just put in the adjustments to make the balance sheet at y/e 2015 match yours and write the rest off as a bad job. Why would it matter if their records match yours historically? If there is some reason for this then you have a mountain of work to do that I don't envy.

Second, and more worryingly is your statement that Sage doesn't even balance. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that but if you mean the trial balance does not balance then it's a big problem. Maybe someone else will correct me but as far as I'm aware, as advised by Sage support the two times I've seen it happen there is no way to fix that other than restoring a backup from before the problem occurred. If you can't do that then the data is hopelessly corrupt and unsalvageable.

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By The Highlander
19th Jan 2016 15:09

Opening Balance Journal

I would safely say there is no need to make the P&L match your accounts unless your client is planning on using it for budgeting and comparison reasons or there are VAT inspection reasons for doing so.

I would therefore recommend that you simply create an opening balance journal for the 2015 accounts putting the differences to profit & loss reserves (most probably nominal 3200).

If this is what you plan to do then first run the year end process for 2013, 2014 and 2015.  Once in the year 2015/16 run the Trial Balance report for balances brought forward.  Compare this to the your balances b/f per your accounts.  Create a journal to adjust the balances on the SAGE balance sheet codes 0010 - 3200 to match those in your accounts.

Some of the nominal codes such as Trade Debtors control account and Trade Creditors control account you won't be able to post a journal to and will actually have to raise the invoices in Suppliers and Customer accounts to match your year end accounts.  Post the income or expenses to nominal 3200 P&L reserves.

Remember to date both the journal and any customer or supplier invoices you need to raise with the 2015 year end date so they don't come into your 2015/16 year.  SAGE will warn you that you have used a date outwith your current year but this can be ignored (assuming you have put the correct date in)

If you need SAGE to match your accounts P&L exactly or there is VAT reasons for making it exactly match then what I suggest above is not suitable.  This is simply a quick fix if you're wanting a clean starting point going forward rather than having accurate historical data to refer to.

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By Tim1
19th Jan 2016 15:11

As Duggimon said I don`t really see the merit of matching 2013 & 14. I would think the main aim is to get your clients TB to match the one you have produced for 2015 then at least going forward you both have a straight edge to work from.

I would start by exporting the 2015 Sage TB to excel. Post your TB alongside and reconcile any differences. This will at least get you started and you might be able to identify any obvious problems once you`ve identified what the differences are. 

Post the differences to SAGE using journals and see what it comes out like.

Good Luck. I`ll guarantee you pretty much everyone on AWEB has had a client like this at one time or another! 

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By JKnight
19th Jan 2016 18:00

Errors?

If the Sage TB does not balance you should really check for errors in the data before doing any thing else. Go to File menu, Maintenance and then Check Data. If there are errors these will need to be fixed. I believe Sage have now ended support for v2011 of Sage 50 Accounts so your client will need a Sage specialist to fix the data.

 

 

 

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By tracey2412
19th Jan 2016 20:26

Had similar situation...

...more than once.

Most recently, simply took the latest TB and debtors / creditors / bank from date of last filed accounts, and started new company records in a newer version of SAGE, then WE input everything so I KNEW it was correct before letting the client anywhere near it. 

It was a laborious job as all suppliers had to be entered (he's a shop fortunately so no customers records) and chart of accounts tweaked as necessary but I did explain exactly how I wanted to do it & why & charged accordingly. My assistant was happy for the overtime! 

Not always practical I realise but was the only way in this case I could keep my sanity! and help the client to be straight going forward.

Hope that helps? as we all seem to be saying the same thing.

Sage training - and I am one of the seeming few on here who actually likes Sage! - is unlikely to help in this instance sadly as it will be generally text book stuff. Not real life nightmares!

Good luck whatever you do.

 

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By Anita14
21st Jan 2016 12:02

Sage CAN be corrected if the TB doesn't balance

I have encountered a situation a few times where the maintenance/data check doesn't pick up any errors but the Month 12 TB doesn't balance (nor the balance sheet).  It CAN be fixed without restoring a backup.  Run the data check as usual but when it comes up and says no errors found, go into Fix errors anyway. From there you can get it to recalculate period and transaction values and it will sort itself out.

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By Gone Sailing
21st Jan 2016 14:37

Switch Software
If Sage is 'not used correctly', there is a possibility this will continue.
Maybe switch to software that is more friendly to making adjustments and amending entries.
You will find some "free transfer" options to some online software.
Then you can work with the client from your office, and help keep it straight.

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By LucyCharles
22nd Jan 2016 10:21

I totally agree that there is probably no reason to go back but personally I thrive on these type of problems and love sorting them out! So if you still want to deal with old issues, would you be interested in outsourcing?

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By Yonder Dave
23rd Jan 2016 16:58

The answer depends on the state of the current data.

As Tracey2412 indicates this is very common, caused by accounting software vendors promoting their products in a way that suggests that anyone can purchase a package and produce all their bookkeeping records. We specialise in bookkeeping and payroll and all our new clients are by word of mouth or by referrals from accountants who have been faced with client who have the exact problem outlined in the OP.

The first thing to decide is if it is possible to correct the existing data in a reasonable time. If all the errors are identifiable it might be possible to correct these and run the Year End.

If the current data is a complete mess it might be better to use the File Maintenance> Rebuild Data option and you can choose to keep Customer Records, Supplier Records, etc. so they don't have to be re-input. Sage has very good advice on entering opening balances in its Knowledge Base, but this has to be followed precisely depending on if the client is using VAT Standard or Cash Accounting. To produce a clean set of data only the unpaid suppliers and customer invoices, the bank balances and the remaining TB balances need to be entered. Several times we have tried to tidy up existing records when it would have been simpler, and cheaper for the client, to use the Rebuild method.

A few other things to consider are:

As it is the client who has created this mess it would be advisable if they went on the basic Sage course.Suggest that the client only enters the transactions they are competent at doing, and find an experienced bookkeeper to enter the trickier transactions. For example we have clients who enter all their sales and most purchase invoices and we visit monthly or quarterly to complete the payroll entries, expenses, bank payments, etc. and then reconcile the bank and submit the VAT return. At the end of the year we enter the accruals, prepayments and depreciation charges leaving the accountant to check our data and concentrate on tax advice and computation.Changing software, as Gone Sailing suggests, is not necessarily the answer. If they make a mess with Sage switching software will not cure the problem.

PS BusyLizzy234 If you post any queries about Sage on the Sage 50 group there are people like Witch Queen who can help with any technical issues with Sage. PM me if you would like to talk about the options.

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Replying to Arthur Putey:
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By Gone Sailing
23rd Jan 2016 17:02

Maybe but ....

Yonder Dave wrote:
Changing software, as Gone Sailing suggests, is not necessarily the answer. If they make a mess with Sage switching software will not cure the problem.

It will probably be easier to fix, and in the comfort of your own office.

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