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Companies House webfiling abbreviated accounts PDF 'Check Figures' reports incorrect error

Companies House webfiling abbreviated accounts...

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I have downloaded the Companies House webfiling Abbreviated Accounts pdf form (ABBRV), but the validation of the figures is not working and preventing me from submitting the completed form.

In the Balance Sheet against Debtors, I have entered 0 (zero) for the current period, and 100 for the previous period.  There is a cross in the Debtors Notes box.

In the Notes section for Debtors, I have entered 0 (zero) in Other debtors for the current period, and 100 in Other debtors for the previous period.   As you can see, these figures match the corresponding figures in the Balance Sheet.

But when I click the Check Figures button in the Debtors Notes, it says:

"The figure do not equal the values entered on the balance sheet (Current period = 0) Please re-enter"

Why is it displaying this error when the figures ARE equal?!

And how do I get round it, apart from fiddling the figures (e.g. put 1 in Debtors and -1 in Creditors)?  I have reported the problem to Co House. 

This is the second problem I've had with the ABBRV pdf template.  Not sure which version it is, but the previous years' PDFs have worked without a problem.

Cheers.

Replies (25)

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By carnmores
14th Nov 2010 16:07

figures sometimes get stuck in the memory so try

do something similar to what you say   +1  / -1  or alter another figure then check numbers  on BS tab and save - then go back and alter to what they should have been

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By petersaxton
14th Nov 2010 16:53

Not a solution

“And how do I get round it, apart from fiddling the figures (e.g. put 1 in Debtors and -1 in Creditors)? “

How will that get around it if it’s complaining the Debtors don’t equal 0?

Carnmores has a good suggestion or you can always start again.

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By JohnWE
14th Nov 2010 17:26

Still no joy

Thanks carnmores, but your suggestion didn't work, and I've tried it on 2 computers, and downloaded the pdf twice.  I've also tried it with Adobe Reader 9.4 and Acrobat Professional 7.1 - same problem.

petersaxton:
>“And how do I get round it, apart from fiddling the figures (e.g. put 1 in Debtors and -1 in Creditors)? “

>How will that get around it if it’s complaining the Debtors don’t equal 0?

That will keep the balance sheet in balance.  Then put 1 in Debtors Notes and -1 in Creditors Notes.  With this, the Check Figures test passes, but the figures aren't the true figures.  The true figures are 0 for Debtors and 0 for Creditors.

The stupid thing is that the check passes for Creditors (0 on Balance Sheet and 0 in Notes), so why is the check failing for Debtors with 0 on the BS and in Debtors Notes?

Even with the 'fiddle' described above, it fails the pre-submission checks:

"THE NOTES SECTION HAS FAILED THE PRE-SUBMISSION CHECKS, PLEASE RE-CHECK THE PAGE AND CORRECT."

Which section has failed, it doesn't say.  I have put 'None' in each Notes box, even those boxes which should be empty, but still the pre-submission check fails.

Any other ideas?  Thanks.

 

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By petersaxton
14th Nov 2010 18:02

Companies House catching up HMRC

“>How will that get around it if it’s complaining the Debtors don’t equal 0?

That will keep the balance sheet in balance.  Then put 1 in Debtors Notes and -1 in Creditors Notes.  With this, the Check Figures test passes, but the figures aren't the true figures.  The true figures are 0 for Debtors and 0 for Creditors.

The stupid thing is that the check passes for Creditors (0 on Balance Sheet and 0 in Notes), so why is the check failing for Debtors with 0 on the BS and in Debtors Notes?”

So when the notes don’t equal the balance sheet the check figures test passes?

You’ve reported the problem to Companies House but they haven’t given you a solution? They should know the answer immediately.

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By JohnWE
14th Nov 2010 18:47

No - further explanation

>>So when the notes don’t equal the balance sheet the check figures test passes?

No.  The Debtors Notes 'Check Figures' passes only when I have 1 in Other debtors in the Notes.  This requires me to have 1 in Debtors in the Balance Sheet (and -1 in Creditors) for the Balance Sheet to balance (via the BS Check Figures button).  Obviously, the BS also balances if I have 0 for Debtors and 0 for Creditors (the true figures), but then with the corresponding 0 in Debtors Notes the Notes Check Figures test fails.

The basic problem is that it won't allow me to have 0 in Debtors Notes to match the 0 in the Balance Sheet Debtors.

If I have 0 in Balance Sheet Debtors and Debtors Notes (the true figures), the Debtors Notes check fails.  The test also fails if I leave the Debtors figures blank/empty.

>>You’ve reported the problem to Companies House but they haven’t given you a solution? They should know the answer immediately.

Not yet.  I reported the problem on Friday, but I'm not too hopeful of an answer, given the poor level of technical expertise about 2 months ago when I had another problem with the ABBRV form.

One solution is not to tick the Debtors Notes box on the BS, and then I don't have to enter the breakdown of Debtors in the Notes, but would this be acceptable to Co House?

Thanks.

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By JohnWE
14th Nov 2010 19:04

Companies House - Important version information says:

"Important Customer information - WebFiling Accounts Templates

Adobe Acrobat Reader:

Customers have experienced problems with certain versions of Adobe Acrobat Reader when completing the WebFiling accounts templates. If you experience problems with a version of Adobe Acrobat Reader whilst using the templates please contact us. We are currently investigating these problems with Adobe.

In the meantime we recommend the use of Adobe Reader version 8.1.3 for Macintosh/Windows users and version 9 for Windows users. ((Minimum system requirements apply)). Unfortunately this version is not compatible with MS Vista.

Note: Adobe Acrobat Reader Version 7.0.9 can be run in conjunction with the latest version."

Unhelpfully, it doesn't say exactly which versions give the problems.  And why 8.1.3 for Mac/Windows and also 9 for Windows?

As already mentioned, I'm using Adobe Reader 9.4.0 on Windows XP.  Think I'll try getting hold of 9(.0) or 8.1.3.

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By petersaxton
14th Nov 2010 19:12

Technical

You need to ask to speak to somebody in a technical department. The general call centre is just to give out basic information.

Insist on speaking to somebody who knows about the problem otherwise people will just avoid dealing with it.

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
14th Nov 2010 20:02

I had a problem

Not the same as yours, but I added an extra note, but then didn't need it. Printed out the accounts and the note didn't appear, so I assumed it was OK. It let me file but then rejected later because the note was blank....

Anyhow the rejection gave me a phone number and reference and the chap on the other end (at 5 past 5) was brilliant. He could see the problem, admitted it was a "glitch" and I emailed him the PDF which he uploaded manually for me and sent me an acceptance message.

Not a solution for you - but it does show if you can find the right person the service is excellent.

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By carnmores
14th Nov 2010 21:06

rebecca thats life in a nut shell

but nut shells are very small   btw i think it will work

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By petersaxton
14th Nov 2010 21:15

The key

"if you can find the right person the service is excellent." - that is the key to dealing with most organisations. It's just that it gets harder and harder to find "the right person" and in HMRC and Companies House they are VERY well hidden.

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By JohnWE
14th Nov 2010 22:06

Same problem with lower Adobe versions

Exactly the same problem occurs with Adobe 7.0.9 and 8.1.3 - the versions which the Co House web site says to use.

And I have uninstalled previous versions and rebooted each time, and wiped disks and registry with CCleaner.

This points to a problem with the .pdf itself, not the Adobe software I'm using.

As already stated, the form accepts 0 in Creditors Notes (to match the Creditors 0 in the BS), but not 0 in Debtors Notes (to match the Debtors 0 in the BS).  Why?!!

As already stated, the test also fails with blank for BS Debtors and blank in Debtors Notes.

As for technical support, my last email reporting a problem with submitting the ABBRV form was forwarded to the WebFiling support team.  The woman who answered (Christine) was useless and didn't even address the problem I reported. 

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
15th Nov 2010 09:21

Another idea.

Any other ideas?  Thanks.

 

 

Posted by

JohnWE

File on paper. Crazy and old fashioned, I know, but might save time at this stage!

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By carnmores
15th Nov 2010 10:25

how many sets of accounts dio you file

is this a one ofannual occassion or do you do lots of CH submissions

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By petersaxton
15th Nov 2010 13:16

HMRC and Companies House are not capable of dealing with online

"File on paper. Crazy and old fashioned, I know, but might save time at this stage!"

While this is a practical suggestion, the problem highlights the incompetence of the organisations who are wanting to encourage us to file online.

Carter saw things through rose-tinted spectacles.

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By JohnWE
15th Nov 2010 13:54

My brilliant solution to the problem

Thanks for the replies.

I 'fixed' it by avoiding the problem: I didn't put a cross against Debtors, nor Creditors in the BS.  This means the Notes for these aren't included in the form and therefore don't have to be completed.  This matches the abbreviated accounts submitted last year, so should be accepted by Co House.

I did have another problem though - the same problem which I reported a month ago for other accounts.  After submitting the completed PDF, the template is meant to convert to a standard, uneditable PDF copy.  This did not happen, even though the submission was accepted.  My PDF is still the editable PDF template with input boxes, navigation buttons, INTRO page etc.

 

PS Carnmores - I file 2 accounts per year.

 

 

 

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By carnmores
15th Nov 2010 14:45

good

you should not have nil fields in any of the notes - mind you they can still reject them but im sure that you have the critical email all iwill be well

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By petersaxton
15th Nov 2010 14:59

Tick boxes

I may be wrong but I don't tick the boxes. I put the numbers in the balance sheet and then any supporting  schedules. The accounts tie in with my abbreviated accounts prepared by my accounts production software.

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By JohnWE
16th Nov 2010 12:04

Fix for the submitting problem

"After submitting the completed PDF, the template is meant to convert to a standard, uneditable PDF copy.  This did not happen, even though the submission was accepted.  My PDF is still the editable PDF template with input boxes, navigation buttons, INTRO page etc."

Companies House said that the fix for this is to turn off enhanced security in the PDF template: Edit - Preferences - Security (Enhanced) - untick 'Enable Enhanced Security' - OK.

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By tjpco1
18th Nov 2010 13:26

SIMILAR PROBLEM

I had a similar problem; I was told by Companies House (very polite, nice chap)that the spec given to the system providers to Companies House said that it should accept minus and plus figures, did not say it should accept zeros!

I pointed out that in European law, and in logic in as much as zero exists, zero is both a minus and a plus figure so that the providers should correct the problem without charge.

Tim

 

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By daveforbes
18th Nov 2010 14:39

Zeros are a problem

I have never used the pdfs, but when filing direct from software (such as ours or Absolutes !!) zeros definately cause a problem so we remove them.

Using paid for software you also have the advantage that you can pass the buck to your software provider to investigate any problems !

David Forbes

 

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By JohnWE
18th Nov 2010 16:13

The answer from Companies House:

"By putting a note (x) against the Debtors on the balance sheet, which is not mandatory, a figure is expected on the balance sheet, not 0 or blank. If you wish to add a Debtor simply remove the 'x' from the balance sheet and add the Debtors note as an additional note."

 

Oddly, I found that zero or blank is accepted for Creditors in the BS and Notes.

 

 

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By easthope
19th Nov 2010 10:36

Paul Easthope

I  too am  having problems with the Corporation Tax filing/Companies House template. First of all a great deal of trouble downloading the software, the an involved job changing "trust" settings in the Adobe 9.3 software. My main problem now is that I can find no way of telling template that we are on Small Companies Tax rate of 21%. When completeing the tax computations in the "Notes" section the software keeps calculating the tax at 28%. The Profit & Loss and Balance Sheet filings accept my 21% tax calculations. Maybe I should not bother filling in this section and hope the return will be accepted.Any ideas

 

 

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By petersaxton
19th Nov 2010 10:51

HMRC site?

Paul

What do you mean? Previous discussions have centred around the abbreviated balance sheet only.

Is this the HMRC site - that can be reached via Companies House? I've seen it on the list of options at Companies House but I have not used it because I use 3rd party software.

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By easthope
20th Nov 2010 09:32

Paul Easthope

No Peter its the new HMRC Corporation Tax on line filing Adobe softwear. This includes the option to automatically file abbreviated accounts to Companies House. I had debtors and creditors so my automatic Companies House abbreviated accounts have been accepted, though they do have a few days to reject. I did the return yesterday 20th Nov.

On my other problem I decided to leave out "Tax" details in the "Notes" section of the Corporation Tax return as it appears it was not a mandatory field

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Nichola Ross Martin
By Nichola Ross Martin
20th Dec 2010 15:35

The problem with the tax note (HMRC's new template)

This problem is reported in a later thread to this one.

It is set to the main co rate, so you accept that but then add a note to say what the real tax charge should be at the small companies rate.

Honestly, you could not make this all up!

Companies House abbreviated accounts template: don't trust it! I wasted the best part of a week trying to use it last year.

File on paper, it is quicker to type it yourself, and then send by recorded delivery.

As a cost effective alternative to HMRC's try VT Final accounts.

Virtual tax support for accountants: www.rossmartin.co.uk

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