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CT Accounting Period new company

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Good evening all...

A potential client has submitted his own CT for his first year of trading. However, the accounts were filed for the period 01 December 2017 - 31 December 2018. As far as I can tell, no other returns have been filed. Therefore is the following correct;-

If we assume a long period of accounts;-

The first return should have been filed for the period of 01 December 2017- 30 November 2018. 

A second return should have been filed for 01 December 2018 - 31 December 2018. 

In this case there would have been a single filing date, 12 months from the end of the period of accounts, in this case the filing date = 31 December 2019. 

As there has been no accounts filed for the second period, this CT return is late, and penalties will apply.

The accounting for the third year should then be 1 January 2019 - 31 December 2019. 

Accounting Period 1  

Tax Due 01 September 2019 - filed with Companies house (incorrectly)

CT600 due 31 December 2019 - filed with companies house (incorrectly)

Accounting Period 2 

Tax Due 1 Oct 2019  - tax payment late, penalties apply

CT600 Due 31 December 2019 - - this return is late- penalties apply

Accounting Period 3

Tax Due 1 October 2010

CT600 Due 31 December 2020

Otherwise, how do you proceed if the first period of accounts is incorrect?  Just start from the 1st January 2019 & make things easy?

I would be grateful for your thoughts, hopefully not a complete slating. ..Maybe I shouldn't quit my day job just yet?

Thank you.

 

 

Replies (21)

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By Matrix
07th Jul 2020 20:55

You won’t really know the true picture until you have online access to their tax records and can see what has been filed and any open periods. They won’t have filed a CT600 for a 13 month period since it wouldn’t have been accepted. Did they definitely start trading on the first day?

I took over a similar case and got HMRC to open up the new short period and filed the CT600. Penalties won’t apply unless the notice to file has already been issued, otherwise you have 3 months.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By NicoleM
07th Jul 2020 21:30

Thank you. I have not got access yet to HMRC account, as he hasn't got a UTR... just had a look at what was submitted to Companies House.

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Replying to NicoleM:
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By Matrix
07th Jul 2020 21:35

So the client has signed up then. What work have you agreed to do?

Looking at Companies House doesn’t tell you anything about the accuracy of the tax provision or whether the CT600s have been filed.

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By Paul Crowley
07th Jul 2020 21:26

Agreed need to get access to HMRC via agent or client.
Client could have set trading date to be later.

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By NicoleM
07th Jul 2020 21:32

Thank you. We are in the process of setting this up...

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By Tax Dragon
07th Jul 2020 21:34

"Tax Due 01 September 2019 - filed with Companies house" confuses me.

But although confused I agree with my learned colleagues above about what needs to be done.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
Psycho
By Wilson Philips
07th Jul 2020 21:40

I too am confused as to how he managed to file a CT600 without a UTR.

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Replying to Wilson Philips:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 08:20

Company was set up with a partner, who is no longer a Director / is no longer involved. Think the partner probably dealt with it .... or important bit of paperwork has got lost along the way.

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By Tim Vane
07th Jul 2020 21:52

Given the confusion in the OP I think the answer to the final question is yes.

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Replying to Tim Vane:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 08:21

thanks. hopefully easy way out!

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By Paul Crowley
07th Jul 2020 22:41

Issues are confused.
Co house is correct.
The UTR exists
Probably no issue if HMRC not sending penalties
Client probably got someone to do it for him.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
07th Jul 2020 23:42

I didn't understand the question as I have issues similar to those stated above.

In particular, what's Companies House got to do with it and when did trading actually start ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 08:24

I looked at Companies House, as I do not have access to the company with HMRC yet...

Company not been trading for the last year or so & I don't think anything has been filed.

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Replying to NicoleM:
RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 08:48

NicoleM wrote:

I looked at Companies House, as I do not have access to the company with HMRC yet...

Company not been trading for the last year or so & I don't think anything has been filed.


When did it trade, then ?

If at all.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 09:12

I think it traded during the first year. Then went 'dormant' but never made the companies house / HMRC. Now wants to start trading again. Very unclear at the moment what has / hasn't been filed. Will have to see once I've got access to his HMRC account.

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By SXGuy
08th Jul 2020 07:29

You can't look at companies House filings and assume the same was filed with hmrc. It. Doesn't work like that.

Companies House accounts will be for the whole period upto the end of the last month.

Hmrc filings will be 12 months for 1st return and the 2nd a short period upto the end of that month.

Accounting software will split the computations to reflect the submitted periods.

You say he doesn't have a utr yet. So clearly no returns have been submitted have they?

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 08:25

I think UTR has got lost along the way...

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Replying to NicoleM:
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By SXGuy
08th Jul 2020 09:12

There's a hmrc page where you can request it to be resent. Takes 2 seconds.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 12:39

yes, done that. thanks

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RLI
By lionofludesch
08th Jul 2020 08:20

Is it that the company has filed 13 month accounts at Companies House ? Are these incorrect or are they correct accounts, incorrectly filed ?

If the accounts are correct, no point in looking here any more. If CT600s were filed at Companies House, they'll be in the bin.

CT600s need filing for the date of commencement of the trade, which may or may not be 1 Dec 2018, for one year and another for the rest of the period to 31 Dec 2019. There will be a UTR and you can get this from HMRC as a last resort. Are there no letters or demands from HMRC?

All this is based on guesswork, given the garbled nature of the OP.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By NicoleM
08th Jul 2020 08:26

Thanks. Getting UTR for HMRC & take it from there.

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