Date Mail Received at HMRC Posted to System

What date does HMRC note their system post as received?

Didn't find your answer?

Dispute with HMRC. Letter posted guarantee next day delivery to HMRC on 31 March 2021.  HMRC state received 7 April 2021 but a colleague was advised that the date shown on HMRC's system is the date the mail is scanned not received.  Has anyone any experience of this?

Unfortunately, looking online at the Royal Mail site they are "currently unable to confirm the status of your item".

 

 

Replies (13)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By 97mwill
30th May 2022 13:36

Don't know about the date, but can tell you that the Royal Mail site won't show as item delivered. I had a similar issue posting something on a similar date this year to make sure it would get there by 5 April, and was later advised that HMRC don't have a manned post room (or more likely can't be bothered to sign for items) therefore any post requiring a signature will never be signed for. Therefore you won't have any proof of when it was delivered. Thankfully in my case, after calling a couple of times they did tell me they'd received the item pre 5/04.
It is quite frankly shocking service by both Royal Mail (to allow something to be delivered and not tracked/signed for when you've specifically paid for that service) and HMRC (poor "customer" service).

Thanks (4)
panda ketteringUK
By ketteringUK
30th May 2022 13:41

Only special delivery is guaranteed and can always be tracked online. It requires an actual signature unlike signed for, which quite often is 'signed' by the postman.

Also , 31st being Thursday. If item is posted after 3pm then it would be classed as posted on 1st. Sat/sun don't count so 4th would be the first available date for the scanning system at HMRC.

Thanks (1)
Replying to ketteringUK:
avatar
By Southwestbeancounter
30th May 2022 15:19

Yes agreed, and I was told by someone at HMRC once that they didn't log receipt of post unless it was specifically sent via Special Delivery!

I sent an envelope via the Royal Mail's 'signed for' service which contained six items of post to HMRC - four were actioned and two were 'lost' - I got told this fact that they didn't log the receipt of usual post when I advised them that they must have received the envelope as they had actioned four of the six items of mail!

Thanks (1)
Replying to ketteringUK:
avatar
By Southwestbeancounter
30th May 2022 15:19

Yes agreed, and I was told by someone at HMRC once that they didn't log receipt of post unless it was specifically sent via Special Delivery!

I sent an envelope via the Royal Mail's 'signed for' service which contained six items of post to HMRC - four were actioned and two were 'lost' - I got told this fact that they didn't log the receipt of usual post when I advised them that they must have received the envelope as they had actioned four of the six items of mail!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By More unearned luck
30th May 2022 20:30

Under the IA 1978 first class post is presumed to have been received the next day (you have proof of posting?) unless the recipient can rebut that presumption. So, you (threaten) to take the matter to the FTT where you will require HMRC to adduce evidence in the form of a witness. Where the witness will be examined in chief and then cross examined by you. If HMRC don't concede and if you follow through with your threat at the very least you will become the leading expert on HMRC's incoming post handling system.

A date recorded on HMRC's system is poor evidence without someone explaining the system for inserting that date in the system. When it comes to outgoing post, for example, Judges don't believe that the 6 April is the true date an NTF was issued. And when an NTF is withdrawn, HMRC don't tell their system that; they instead enter a fake date of receipt in order to stop the computer churning out penalty notices.

My guess is that HMRC label each batch of post with the actual date of receipt and whenever it is scanned the date of receipt is recorded on their system (E&OE). The villain is more likely to the RM or there has been an E or O.

Thanks (0)
Replying to More unearned luck:
avatar
By vinylnobbynobbs
31st May 2022 08:54

Thank you

Thanks (0)
Replying to More unearned luck:
avatar
By gillybean04
31st May 2022 10:41

I'm sure this point has been discussed on here before, but the issue is that you first need to "prove" it was posted, properly addressed and pre-paid.

How do you prove it? By giving the tracking reference. A tracking number on its own proves nothing. Its the data under that reference that proves it was sent and addressed properly.

But that data may show the item wasn't delivered, or may show the item wasn't delivered until 7th.

Furthermore, IA 1978 can only apply where there is an act requiring or allowing service by post. So it would depend on what has been sent (has OP said? I don't think they have).

Thanks (0)
Replying to gillybean04:
avatar
By vinylnobbynobbs
31st May 2022 10:54

It was an Overpayment Relief claim for the three years ended 5 April 2019, HMRC are saying that as the claim was not received until 7 April 2021 then the 2017 claim is out of time.

Thanks (0)
Replying to vinylnobbynobbs:
avatar
By gillybean04
31st May 2022 13:07

I'd try asking them to consider the claim late, on basis of the posting receipt. I'm just not sure it would be worth arguing further if they refuse.

Thanks (0)
Replying to gillybean04:
avatar
By More unearned luck
31st May 2022 17:36

"Furthermore, IA 1978 can only apply where there is an act requiring or allowing service by post. So it would depend on what has been sent (has OP said? I don't think they have)."

Um, s 115 TMA 1970* and, um, OP said "letter posted".

*Surely it would be so surprising if a provision such as s 115 didn't exist, that your doubting its existence is very odd.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By SXGuy
31st May 2022 08:45

Bulk signing of mail means you won't get proof of when it was received.

However I can tell you that any court case involving say for example debts, when argued regarding delivering of mail, courts rule that first class is deemed delivered after 2 days.

Doesnt help your case but maybe relevant.

Thanks (0)
Replying to SXGuy:
avatar
By vinylnobbynobbs
31st May 2022 08:53

Thank you that is a help

Thanks (0)
Ivor Windybottom
By Ivor Windybottom
31st May 2022 12:05

Post is now routinely put in the "wrong tray" and so I wouldn't be too worried about when it was delivered... it will eventually appear in the wrong tray (excuse no. 1) before being moved to the correct tray, before excuses 2..99 and then magically being processed at some point shortly before the sun stops shining.

Thanks (0)