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Declaration of trust and Form 17

Is a new declaration of trust required? I say no

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New client -completed a DoT over a year ago and no Form 17 was not submitted withing 60 days. 

Am I correct that a new DoT is not required and it is the form 17 that needs to be submitted withing 60 days and the rental split will be effective form the date of signing form 17 . I would appreciate conformation

 

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By Accountant A
18th Feb 2019 11:50

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/personal-tax/property-tax-form-17-ge...

"By Martin B 03rd May 2016 14:15
Property tax: Form 17 - Get the details right.
For future refrence"

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Replying to Accountant A:
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By Martin B
18th Feb 2019 12:02

Yes I have revisited this and it is not clear.
Do you know?

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Replying to Martin B:
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By Accountant A
18th Feb 2019 12:03

Martin B wrote:

Yes I have revisited this and it is not clear.
Do you know?

Yup

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By banacc
18th Feb 2019 12:23

Come on Martin, you’ve insisted on ‘flagging’ countless posts on AW in the past - you must be able to find the answer among them.

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By K81
18th Feb 2019 13:03

Form 17 should be submitted to HMRC within 60 days of the date of the deed of trust - new deed of trust needed.

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Replying to K81:
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By Martin B
18th Feb 2019 14:12

HI K81- Are you sure 'new deed is required ? I say this becasuse, let's say a valid DoT is completed and the beneficial ownership is changed and no form 17 is submitted.
Say two years later - a form 17 needs to be submitted. Why would you need a new DoT because the pervious is valid in law and ownership changed 2 years ago.

I think it form 17 that needs to be submitted within 60 days and no new DoT is required.

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Replying to Martin B:
By K81
18th Feb 2019 14:20

form 17 states -
The completed form must be sent with any evidence of the beneficial interest you have declared within 60 days of the date the declaration was made to.

now rightly or not I have always taken that to mean the form 17 needs to be sent to HMRC with a copy of the deed of trust within 60 days of the deed being signed.

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Replying to Martin B:
By Duggimon
18th Feb 2019 14:43

Martin B wrote:

I think it form 17 that needs to be submitted within 60 days and no new DoT is required.

How are you going to file the Form 17 within 60 days of the Deed of Trust being signed without signing a new Deed of Trust?

I'm genuinely interested to know your thought process on this.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By Martin B
18th Feb 2019 15:42

What I am saying is that , It is the form 17 that needs to be submitted within 60 days of signing, otherwise a new form 17 needs to be completed. So no new DoT required.
DoT is a matter of fact of something that has occured at a particular time.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
18th Feb 2019 15:01

I think this is all a bit unnecessary given some of the respondents have got this wrong, its not as daft a question as it may seem.

You must distinguish between:

1. The date of the declaration (which has a strict 60 day time limit on getting to HMRC)

2. The deed of trust which could be any age.

All you need to do is make a declaration, and make sure it arrives within 60 days of the date on it.

Martin, if you look in the manuals its in there TSEM9800 ish.

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By Martin B
18th Feb 2019 15:40

Thanks.
So in a nutshell- no new DoT and the time limit is for form 17. 60days - after which a new form 17 needs to be completed.

Many thanks despite the earlier unhelpful comments which help no one. Aweb is not as good as it used to be.

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Replying to Martin B:
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By Accountant A
18th Feb 2019 16:08

Martin B wrote:

Aweb is not as good as it used to be.

Couldn't agree more. The majority of questions can be answered by a quick Google search and the fact that a query about Form 17 can generate a long debate, when the HMRC manuals are about as clear as it's possible to be, is beyond depressing as far as the reputation of the accountancy profession is concerned.

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Replying to Accountant A:
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By Martin B
18th Feb 2019 16:50

You certainly have not helped and the reason Aweb is not as good as it used to be.
Easy to sit on the sidelines and just make unhelpful smug comments to all questions and not provide any useful or meaningful assistance to fellow accountants.

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