Deliveroo cycle deliveries - allowable expenses

20,000 miles per year

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Good Morning Guys

I'm overthinking this a little but here goes.

Deliveroo drivers approached me, self employed, own bicycle and phone used.  Due to the first to approach me stating he cycles up to 400 miles per week I have suggested forgoing capital allowances on his bike and claiming the 20P per mile simplified expense.  However, checking, the guidance doesn't mention bicycles in simplified expenses guidance like it does with employee AMAP payments.  Does this mean there in no allowable expense for bicycles?

Other allowables?  Phone, use of home, footwear (not corporate or safety - but far more wear) ??

Additionally, a common debate with client's friends down the pub ... How much do you traditionally dsallow from a client's phone bill?  I know it depends on nature of trade/profession etc, but rough ideas?

Thank you for any answers.

 

Replies (23)

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By paul_scotland_5
31st Oct 2016 10:48

Thanks SteLacca, but this is for employees.

Business allowances are different. I have checked Simplified Expenses guidance and bicycles are not mentioned in the guidance.

Regards

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
31st Oct 2016 11:09

The rates for the self-employed only apply to cars, motor cycles and goods vehicles, and there is a separate mileage rate for motorcyles.

Cycles other than motorcycles are not included.

I have no comments to make on the wear and tear of his footwear, how much phone expenditure will be business, or whether he can claim £10 per month for riding his bike round his living room.

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By bernard michael
31st Oct 2016 11:12

Does the latest Uber ruling change things ?

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Replying to bernard michael:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
31st Oct 2016 11:35

No. The Uber ruling is that the individuals concerned are "workers" with certain employment rights. It does not mean that they are employees; they provide their own cars after all!

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By paul_scotland_5
31st Oct 2016 12:17

Thank you Portia, as witty as ever ... I bet you're in demand tonight?

So am I to assume the way forward is capital allowances on cycle? If so, a reasonable estimate at commencement of self employed suffices if prior owned?

Thanks again

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
31st Oct 2016 12:49

Capital allowances on the bike and bicycle pump, and a revenue expenditure claim for the chain oil.

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
By Democratus
31st Oct 2016 14:50

Claiming for a pump would inflate the CA claim ...................................................................................................................................................................................................tumbleweed rolls past .........................................................and i've got my coat.

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Replying to Democratus:
RLI
By lionofludesch
31st Oct 2016 15:11

Tssk.

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By Disabled Accountant
31st Oct 2016 15:35

Capitalise it, and probably write it off after one year. I'm assuming this will be an expensive lightweight bike and not a Halfords £50 special.

After a year and 20,000 miles it will be well worn, and will probably have been run over by a couple of HGV's.

I'd ensure you get your fees up front just as there is a high likelihood of your client ending up under a 'bus.

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By The Accountant
04th Nov 2016 14:10

I claimed Capital Allowances on my client's bicycle. Revenue for lock and chain, brakes, chain oil, tyres and innertubes etc. Footwear and helmet claimed as protective clothing with no set off for private use. Also claim a percentage of the R &R for the shed it is stored in. Client did not end up under a bus, but under a 10 wheel truck. For telephone generally 15% private use. Only once had it queried and then they allowed it.

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By Andrew1946
04th Nov 2016 17:26

Further to the Accountants comments regarding the revenue expenditure for consumable type expenses, it probably goes without saying, but obviously the Servicing costs, sometime quite hefty would most likely be revenue also

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By Andrew1946
04th Nov 2016 17:26

Further to the Accountants comments regarding the revenue expenditure for consumable type expenses, it probably goes without saying, but obviously the Servicing costs, sometime quite hefty would most likely be revenue also

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By Andrew1946
04th Nov 2016 17:26

Further to the Accountants comments regarding the revenue expenditure for consumable type expenses, it probably goes without saying, but obviously the Servicing costs, sometime quite hefty would most likely be revenue also

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Replying to Andrew1946:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
04th Nov 2016 17:40

Yes. Puncture repair kits have become quite pricey since the pound plummeted.

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
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By The Accountant
04th Nov 2016 18:01

Must be the cost of rubber!

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By [email protected]
06th May 2022 16:51

I followed this forum advice for over 2 years and believed you cannot claim 20p per mile on a bicycle

This bad advice cost me thousands and stress.

HMRC still allows bicycles to claim mileage

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By Tax Dragon
06th May 2022 17:22

I guess the previous respondents were not aware they were advising you. And, if indeed what was said was not relevant to your situation, that would be because it was not relevant to your situation. Relying on comments that were not relevant to your situation... you brought the loss and stress on yourself, imho.

Sift wrote:

No reliance on information

The content on our site is provided for general information only. It is not intended to amount to advice on which you should rely. You must obtain professional or specialist advice before taking, or refraining from, any action on the basis of the content on our site.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By legerman
08th May 2022 16:53

Tax Dragon wrote:

I guess the previous respondents were not aware they were advising you. And, if indeed what was said was not relevant to your situation, that would be because it was not relevant to your situation. Relying on comments that were not relevant to your situation... you brought the loss and stress on yourself, imho.

Sift wrote:

No reliance on information

The content on our site is provided for general information only. It is not intended to amount to advice on which you should rely. You must obtain professional or specialist advice before taking, or refraining from, any action on the basis of the content on our site.

Interestingly enough, the untied app allows a sole trader to claim 20p a mile if using a bicycle for business use. We both know that's incorrect, but where would someone relying on the app stand if HMRC were to query a claim? I assume that it would be similar to a claim against an accountant not being valid as no loss, in essence, has occurred.

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By gillybean04
06th May 2022 17:23

Are you sure it was bad advice? Or even bad information? There used to be a guidance page, bim47702, which allowed 20p per mile for pedal cycles for self employed, but that was removed quite some time ago.

Now you have s94d ITTOIA which restricts "vehicle" to car, motorcycle or goods vehicle.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2005/5/part/2/chapter/5A/crossheadi...

While for employees, there is s235 ITEPA which includes cycles in vehicles for which MAP can be paid or MAR be claimed.

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By Hugo Fair
06th May 2022 17:56

So what 'advice' do you believe you should have received (without posting a query setting out your circumstances)?

BTW if it "cost me thousands" (presumably at least £2k to warrant the plural) in the space of 2 years ... then that's at least £1k p.a. which, with tax relief (at say 20%) on 20p/mile, must mean you cycled a minimum of 25,000 mile p.a.?

In which case you've almost certainly increased your projected longevity - giving you more time to practice asking questions.

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Replying to [email protected]:
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By DKB-Sheffield
07th May 2022 11:48

I suggest you make a PII claim against the contribitor who advised you, although as you never actually posed a question, or were even a member of the site 'til yesterday, this may be hard to prove...?!

Incidentally, and whilst it may make no difference in this case, your suggestion is that you've followed this advice for over 2 years (say 2020), yet the thread was dated 2016! Aside from never relying on your *interpreration* of advice from a forum, NEVER rely on any tax information/ advice that is 4 years old!!!

Still, that said, if it's only 2 years since you 'took' advice, your 2020/21 return can be amended and your 2021/22 is likely not filed. Negligible loss! This won't of course compensate you for the emotional stress and anxiety.

Notwithstanding all of the above, surely you discussed all of this with your accountant? It seems very strange that someone would take (not seek) advice from a forum of random people, but would not then, at least ask the advice of someone knowing their own affairs.

BTW bicycles can't claim anything, they are not taxable persons! It may also be helpful to state if you're S/E or an employee (including company director), and whether it is HMRC who have 'said' you can claim, or your employer/ contractor? Putting the record of this thread straight may then avoid a future reader encountering similar issues, or taking your 'facts' out of context!

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By The Accountant
07th May 2022 10:48

The mind boggles!

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