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Direct debit and MTDV - HMRC acknowledgement?

Direct debit and MTDV - HMRC acknowledgement?

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I have just submitted my first VAT return under MTDV.  Thought I'd kick off with my own a quarter earlier than I needed to before going live with clients.  Registration etc has been straightforward and the submission itself has been fine.  Have printed off the submission receipt but what I am missing compared with the old method of logging in to the gateway, inputting my numbers and submitting is any indication of when the direct debit will be taken.  The acknowledgement of the VAT submission you used to get under the old method not only gave you the date of collection but gace the instruction that if you had made the submission on behalf of the VAT registered entity (ie as an agent) you "must print this acknowledgement and present to the account holder/authorised signatort of the account prior to the stated Direct Debit collection date".  Has anyone any ideas of how you can get the equivalent of this acknowledgement under MTDV?  Just to be clear I can see from my bank that the direct debit mandate has updated to the new reference emailed to me by HMRC as part of the MTDV registration so don't think it's an issue with my set up.  So pleased I made my own return a dummy run so I can manage client expectations when I come to do their first submissions!

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By Matrix
09th May 2019 20:20

No idea as I have not even registered my own business.

However a client emailed yesterday thinking their VAT number had changed, they were just about to update their invoice templates. Whereas they must have received the email about the new DD reference under MTD.

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to Matrix
09th May 2019 21:10

Indeed - if it's any help I had 2 emails. One confirming the registration for MTDV, the other giving the new reference details for the direct debit. My plan was to register my own business first so I'd have an idea of how the process works not just for the clients for whom I prepare and submit returns as agent but also for those clients who do their own submission. Of course it might backfire in that now I am committed to filing digitally (although it was quite a simple process)and still wondering if the project is going to be canned when it becomes clear even to Mel Stride that the implementation is completely woeful!

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By Matrix
to jbaccsol
09th May 2019 21:35

Thanks, I know I should have done the same but I have been watching the guinea pigs’ experiences with interest.

I told clients not to sign up until after 15 May. Some who do their own VAT returns couldn’t resist signing up and have some problems. But I wonder if any others will think their VAT number has changed.

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By Anita14
to jbaccsol
10th May 2019 20:59

Had DD in place for years, signed up for MTD, HMRC said good to go, submitted return, DD failed, bank said HMRC cancelled, HMRC said “no, not us”.
2nd return, bank said HMRC set up DD with new reference, rang to check, HMRC said “no, not us”, cancelled DD that HMRC “didn’t set up”, paid by bank transfer, week later got an email from HMRC saying the DD (of which they had “no record”) was rejected! Who knows?

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09th May 2019 20:39

I recommend that you get your software to give you the figures that HMRC have on their server once you have uploaded the vat return.

This is a live receipt on my vat number:
processingDate:2019-05-02T13:39:18.000Z
formBundleNumber:096000084451
chargeRefNumber:XT007187106496

That is all the data that comes back from a submission, but if you look at what is on HMRC's server then you have certainty that they have the right data recorded.

I switched off the direct debit on this account a few months ago because I wanted to get it through into the pilot. It would be slightly different with a DD.

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to johnhemming
09th May 2019 21:03

Thanks - I've got all of that. It was the direct debit side of things I was more interested in. Fine for my own VAT as the money is in the bank account so HMRC can take it whenever. Just a bit concerned about how it's going to work when I come to do clients. Still the first of those will be the June quarter ends so still some time in which I can contact HMRC and ask how in their infinite wisdom this is supposed to work :)

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to jbaccsol
09th May 2019 21:33

We know from AW that there are questions about the timing of direct debits. I have, however, not had any clients who have raised with me the question of a direct debit being taken too early. We also know from AW that some direct debits go astray.

All I could suggest is vigilance on this.

The specification is here:
https://developer.service.hmrc.gov.uk/api-documentation/docs/api/service...

This part of the receipt (not present above) tells you if there is a DD (or a repayment due via BACS)

paymentIndicator

Is DD if the netVatDue value is a debit and HMRC holds a Direct Debit Instruction for the client. Is BANK if the netVatDue value is a credit and HMRC holds the client’s bank data. Otherwise not present.

Limited to the following possible values:
DD
BANK

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13th May 2019 17:07

Perhaps it isn't showing up because HMRC themselves don't know when they're going to take it? Could be 41 days past the quarter end like the good old days, could be tomorrow, perhaps they'll take it twice next Tuesday or maybe you'll win the lucky VAT lotto and they'll not take it at all? Who knows, it's a fun game for all the family.

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