Disappearing accountants

Where have all the accountants gone

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We have had half a dozen new client contacts in the last month that have been turned away from other firms, apparently there are firms in our area who just arent taking on new clients as they dont have the capacity, speaking to an accountant in Scotland last week he was turning work away too so it doesnt look geographic. Has anybody else come across this phenomenon. The rumours I'm hearing are that some accountnats are exiting the business due to MTD and having to work with new unfamiliar software , any thoughts.

Regards

 

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By AndyC555
10th Nov 2021 12:34

I can see why any huge change could prompt those just short of retirement to bring that forward rather than learn a whole new system just for a couple of years.

I joined HMIT in 1987 so just short of ICTA 88 coming in and replacing ICTA 70. A few inspectors grumbled about having to learn new references. One of the very elderly Inspectors cheerfully told me he still quoted ITA 52 references in his letters.

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Replying to AndyC555:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
10th Nov 2021 12:42

That was me in practice, I learned all my tax references starting in 1982 at university and 1985 to 1987 in practice then the ******* changed all the references, I never bothered relearning them.

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Replying to AndyC555:
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By Michael Davies
11th Nov 2021 11:57

For my Inspector exam,I knew every single ICTA and TMA section.Can’t remember these days why I just went upstairs or what my Wife expressly told me not to do.

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Replying to Michael Davies:
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By DJKL
15th Nov 2021 09:45

On the bright side- you can still manage stairs.

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By Matrix
10th Nov 2021 12:39

I have two meetings with prospects today so maybe you are right.

Given there appears to be plenty of work out there we are going to be more picky and put our fees up. But definitely will not sweep up the MTD clients. Will just support existing ones.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
11th Nov 2021 12:25

a big issue is recruitment as a lot of staff have moved around and the biggest problem I here from accounting pals is that recruiting new/good staff is a challenge.

Plenty of work available so many are maybe focussed on doing more work post covid with existing clients so not looking to sign up new work unless its better than already on your books.

We have had a lot of price shoppers around he want cheap also so not interested in that area of market.

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Replying to Glennzy:
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By the_fishmonger
13th Nov 2021 11:01

Lack of good staff is a general issue not restricted to our profession.

To fix it, our government needs to forget all the school scoring and teach the kids to think, teach them what they need to be able to go into work (XL/Word as well as how to animate!), teach them core values of being part of a society and let the buggers have fun during their youth

Stop telling every child that they need to aspire to be the next Bezos/Musk/Zuckerberg. Remind them that the bog cleaners and binmen are as important a part in our societal machine as anyone else.

On top of that our leaders must accept that, no matter how much academic teaching is forced on a decent percentile, those individuals will never be able to do some jobs for as long as they possess an [***]. That's not to say the won't still turn out to be best lorry driver and go on to run the next Stobart-esque empire

NB: Our experience of taking on a 20/21 y.o. to train was woeful

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Replying to the_fishmonger:
Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
15th Nov 2021 16:26

100% agree with you on the lack of vocational skills peddled in schools.

My daughter really struggled in lockdown and the support was none existent from the school, so as my wife was a nurse at the sharp end of it throughout the home schooling thing fell on me, alongside trying to keep my own business going along with getting everyone through the Covid period.

She asked me what good is Geography to you when you leave school, if I am honest I struggled to give a decent answer, and as he schooling was waning we decided to set up an amazon business for her to learn how business / money works. Granted she gets a lot of help from me but at 14 she now has the start of something that she could grow and never have to work for anyone else.

I might end up working for her one day.

But 100% kids need to learn office, excel, word and coding and how to have a personality as god knows what schools think they need.

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Replying to the_fishmonger:
Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
15th Nov 2021 16:26

100% agree with you on the lack of vocational skills peddled in schools.

My daughter really struggled in lockdown and the support was none existent from the school, so as my wife was a nurse at the sharp end of it throughout the home schooling thing fell on me, alongside trying to keep my own business going along with getting everyone through the Covid period.

She asked me what good is Geography to you when you leave school, if I am honest I struggled to give a decent answer, and as he schooling was waning we decided to set up an amazon business for her to learn how business / money works. Granted she gets a lot of help from me but at 14 she now has the start of something that she could grow and never have to work for anyone else.

I might end up working for her one day.

But 100% kids need to learn office, excel, word and coding and how to have a personality as god knows what schools think they need.

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Replying to Glennzy:
Morph
By kevinringer
15th Nov 2021 18:43

Agreed, especially about Office. When I was in school (left early 80s) we were taught to code in 3 languages! After finishing my O Levels and before I started my A Levels I got a Saturday job in a travel agent. They had a computer with useless software. With their agreement I completely re-program their accounting ledgers. I was still 15 at the time, but those were the skills I was learning in school and most of the rest of my class would also have been able to create a decent accounting program. Fast forward 40 years to 2021 and we took on a school leaver with good A levels but no idea about Excel and not a chance of coding anything. There's no doubt that school prepared kids better for the outside world 40 years ago than today.

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By DJKL
16th Nov 2021 11:17

Well, it may lead to say a MA in Sustainable Development from St Andrews, them a Msc in Urban Planning then a Graduate Town Planning role with a firm of planning consultants leading to Chartered status. (I may be biased, my daughter took Standard Grade, Higher then Advanced Higher, a 2.1 from St Andrews and then a Distinction in her Msc in Urban Planning

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Replying to Glennzy:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
16th Nov 2021 12:45

Duplicate

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Giraffe
By Luke
11th Nov 2021 14:04

With the exception of taking on very select referrals from good existing clients, I haven't taken on new clients for a few years. My website even says the practice isn't taking on more clients at the moment.

I have a nice amount of clients so that I generally have a good work/life/money balance. When I used to get overly enthusiastic about taking on new clients, I invariably ended up stressed with everyone wanting things at once and frankly I can't be bothered to work that hard!

There is another good accountant (amongst several!) in the local town who I send everyone on to. He's grateful and I feel like at least I have pointed them in a good direction.

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Replying to Luke:
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By CW2012
11th Nov 2021 14:38

You seem to have gotten yourself to a nice place Luke, good for you, I find that adding new clients brings an absolute heap of admin with it and very often you don't recoup the time for a couple of years by which time some have dropped out , taken employment etc. Far better to operate at a size you are comfortable with an look after your clients to the best of your ability.

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Morph
By kevinringer
12th Nov 2021 13:10

Loads of accountants have/are/about to pack up. Locally they have all been sole practitioners or bookkeepers.

There was an initial round of packing in as we approached MTD VAT. Some packed in because they didn't want to learn software. Some packed in because they were not registered for money laundering supervision so couldn't get an ASA.

Last year there was another round because of the extra workload from Covid.

There'll be more ahead of the MTD VAT extension.

There will be loads ahead of MTD ITSA. Added to that, there are many of us who have looked at what we've gone through with Covid and how HMRC still steam rollered through 30-day CGT and CIS reverse charge during the pandemic as if we didn't have enough to deal with, then HMRC decide we need more work and announce the basis period reforms. There are plenty of us saying we've had enough.

As for taking on new clients: I stopped a while ago and pass them onto someone else. I just haven't got the time to handle any more.

It is ITSA that will be the killer. Not because of having to use unfamiliar MTD software, it's because we know we're on a hiding to nothing with MTD ITSA. Trying to teach clients to use software is a thankless task and most clients won't take it in. Then having to spend time wading through client input and correcting it. And what about all the extra time? How much do I charge the client when they think they've done all the work? And whilst this is going on, HMRC don't seem interested in the accuracy of the data. HMRC seem happy with rubbish as long as it is digital rubbish.

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By CW2012
12th Nov 2021 13:56

This new software is driving me round the twist, I keep hearing, "my bill should be cheaper now as I have done all the work for you" one look at the accounts records and they are a dogs dinner, now we have to teach the clients how to use it before we can do our bit, I'm pretty sure the big box of invoices and the analysed cashbook was way better than the junk that I see now. And as for taking pictures of the receipts and expecting the accounts to magically appear don't get me started.
Yours annoyed old man

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
08th Nov 2022 09:55

I left practice in Sept 2019, as MTD vat approached ,so that explains Scotland .

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