Share this content
23

Eat out fraud ??

How will they prevent it

Didn't find your answer?

If a restaurant puts a false cash invoice for a £20 non existent meal the govt reimburses £10

Effect :-

 Paid to Govt 5%VAT = 96p + tax on £ £19.04 =£3.81 Total £4.77

Received from Govt £10

Profit to fraudster £5.23 

I wonder what peice of magic HMRC will use to stop a sudden huge "popularity" in eating out

 

Replies (23)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By Justin Bryant
10th Jul 2020 10:03

Yes; this and other obvious abuses (and HMRC's dumbness in not anticipating/preventing them) have already been discussed here.

Much of the Covid support measures have read pretty much like a fraudster's charter.

Then there was the SDLT change that has basically just handed £15k to rich people who obviously don't need it (split in practice between the buyer & seller I expect) whilst eliminating FTB's privileged position in the market (and of course causing properties to be more expensive than they would otherwise be for them in the absence of this measure - so a double FTB whammy!). What a joke!

Thanks (0)
Replying to Justin Bryant:
avatar
By memyself-eye
10th Jul 2020 09:42

To be fair, not HMRC's fault. The politicians have (yet again) dreamt up a whizzy scheme which will be nigh on impossible to police. Sure, the revenue will catch some abusers but the smart ones who don't overdo the fraud will probably get off scot free.

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th Jul 2020 09:42

Easy way to solve it - only if paid for by card.

There's only so many cards a pub owner and his mates can hold.

Still, it's only for 13 days. Unlikely to be a major fraud.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Adam12345
10th Jul 2020 10:07

Exactly, how much can one restaurant claim and it not raise suspicions with HMRC. Not much in the grand scheme of things (£billions being thrown around).

It is also not yet clear how the claim process will work - will they need to input names and address of diners? They have to collect them anyway for contact tracing.

Fraud relating to the furlough grants, BBL and SEISS is more of the issue.

This £10 incentive won't make me change my mind about whether I choose to go out or not - it will just move demand from Friday & Saturday to Monday through to Wednesday.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Adam12345:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
11th Jul 2020 00:14

Yes agreed that quantum of opportunity would be limiting factor. Really small figures compared with other grants.

Having said that wife also seemed keen on moving Saturday meal out to Wednesday, but I have a feeling it will end up as additional to rather than instead of.

Thanks (2)
avatar
By Paul Crowley
10th Jul 2020 09:52

Jim Harra already figured it out. Political showboating much more important.

Thanks (3)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th Jul 2020 09:59

It always has been.

Thanks (0)
Caroline
By accountantccole
10th Jul 2020 10:02

Minefield
Table of 6.
Couple one goes to the bar, orders and pays for 6 starters (50% or £10 each off)
Couple two goes to the bar, orders and pays for 6 mains (50% or £10 each off)
Couple three get dessers and coffee (50% or £10 each off)
In a busy, order at the bar pub, the server won't necessarily be able to keep track of what has been ordered to each group.

That or you make a crawl of it, starters in pub 1, mains in pub 2 and desert in pub 3.
I almost wish I was still in the UK!!

Thanks (0)
Replying to accountantccole:
avatar
By Justin Bryant
10th Jul 2020 10:04

Yes; that trick has been discussed here already too.

Thanks (0)
Replying to accountantccole:
avatar
By Mr_awol
10th Jul 2020 10:24

accountantccole wrote:

In a busy, order at the bar pub, the server won't necessarily be able to keep track of what has been ordered to each group.

That or you make a crawl of it, starters in pub 1, mains in pub 2 and desert in pub 3.
I almost wish I was still in the UK!!

I haven't been in a pub or restaurant yet but I have been inundated with FaceBook posts about how they are relieved that gov have finally succumbed to industry lobbying and allowed them to open and customer safety is they number one priority (slight contradiction there but we move on).

Even for drinks, they are all saying it will be table service only. I'm not sure if they are all doing it because that is a condition of opening (like taking names is) or it's just guidance but either way, I don't think the 'order food at the bar' pub will exist right now.

As for the restaurant crawl in theory yes but in practice probably not. For starters (geddit?) who can really be bothered to do that. Also, with lincreased cleaning between covers how many restaurants are actually going to want someone in just for a starter. Finally, typical meal prices (at least the restaurants I go in) might average out at £7 a starter, £20 a main and £6 a pudding. As such the max I could make on a restaurant crawl is probably a discount of £16.50 per head vs £10 per head for staying put.

In fact, thinking about it properly, if I take the wife out Mon-Thur I have various free dining cards given to me by the banks which generally entitle me to 50% off food anyway. It is cheaper for me to use those than it is for me to take up the government offer.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Mr_awol:
RLI
By lionofludesch
10th Jul 2020 10:35

Mr_awol wrote:

Even for drinks, they are all saying it will be table service only. I'm not sure if they are all doing it because that is a condition of opening (like taking names is) or it's just guidance but either way, I don't think the 'order food at the bar' pub will exist right now.

I don't even think you'll be able to just "drop in" at a lot of places.

But - early days just yet.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Mr_awol:
Caroline
By accountantccole
10th Jul 2020 13:10

No idea how it is working in Blighty, we are pretty much open as normal again in France, except for tables being further apart and masks being worn

Thanks (0)
Replying to accountantccole:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
15th Jul 2020 11:47

Think I possibly want to be couple one (or maybe couple three), I certainly do not want to be couple two.

Thanks (0)
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
10th Jul 2020 15:24

It works with companies as well. Take off corporation tax and basic rate on dividends and a owner/shareholder is still better off, albeit with a marginally lower figure.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Paul Crowley
11th Jul 2020 17:14

Why invent it, could lead to an unexpected increase in GP
Better to just switch dates of a real meal

Much better tax evasion profit to be made

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Justin Bryant
15th Jul 2020 11:17

Taxation Magazine have picked up on this specific wheeze I see: https://www.taxation.co.uk/articles/this-week's-opinion-16-july-2020

Good to see Aweb leading the way again!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By andrewdiver
20th Jul 2020 13:54

I have a client who runs a sports club, they run the bar and the food is operated by another party. It would seem that there would be nothing which would not preclude the £10 limit being applied to the soft drinks purchased from the sports club and also the meal from the catering company as they will come from seperate invoices.

Thanks (0)
Replying to andrewdiver:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
20th Jul 2020 13:59

Sounds a bit too inventive to me

Thanks (0)
Replying to andrewdiver:
avatar
By bernard michael
20th Jul 2020 14:27

andrewdiver wrote:

I have a client who runs a sports club, they run the bar and the food is operated by another party. It would seem that there would be nothing which would not preclude the £10 limit being applied to the soft drinks purchased from the sports club and also the meal from the catering company as they will come from seperate invoices.


Will you fall foul of one of the conditions below
You can register if your establishment:

sells food for immediate consumption on the premises

provides its own dining area or shares a dining area with another establishment for eat-in meals

was registered as a food business with the relevant local authority on or before 7 July

You cannot register:

an establishment that only offers takeaway food or drink

catering services for private functions

a hotel that provides room service only

dining services (such as packaged dinner cruises)

mobile food vans or trailers

If your application is based on dishonest or inaccurate information, your registration will be revoked.

Thanks (0)
Replying to andrewdiver:
Ivor Windybottom
By Ivor Windybottom
20th Jul 2020 14:27

That may be possible if you really believe this type of business splitting is watertight. Perhaps that is really the issue, not the £10.

Clearly if there are two genuinely separate businesses and the punters go to the club to buy drinks and know they are contracting with a separate food business then it's £10 each. Hopefully the food and drink are not delivered to their table together!

Thanks (0)
Replying to Ivor Windybottom:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
20th Jul 2020 15:01

But only one of the businesses supply food?

Thanks (0)
Replying to andrewdiver:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Jul 2020 14:30

£20 buys a lot of soft drinks.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By bernard michael
20th Jul 2020 14:19

Can they both be registered for the scheme ??

Thanks (0)
Share this content

Related posts