Employee with no fixed address

Can Payroll be run

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Can a payroll be run and submitted to HMRC if the employee has no fixed address ?

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By taxdigital
20th Feb 2024 14:10

Can an individual be a party to an employment contract with no fixed address?

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Replying to taxdigital:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
20th Feb 2024 14:13

Can one just put c/o the employer's address?

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Replying to DJKL:
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By taxdigital
20th Feb 2024 14:28

Letting the ‘prospective’ employee use their address means getting into a pre-employment contract which again means….. !!!

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Replying to taxdigital:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 11:14

Would raise questions also about the premises being used for residential use which is likely to be forbidden in any business use lease. Council tax and regulations about using it as accommodation too.

If suggesting it is just an admin address then still raises more questions about where the employee is normally 'living' and why that address has not been given. Lack of detail from the OP has not helped point towards a solution.

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By hje
20th Feb 2024 14:25

Yeah, go for it.

Just use c/o the employer's address and move on.

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By Leywood
20th Feb 2024 14:44

Out of interest, where does he reside?

Can he allocate a friend or family’s address?

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By FactChecker
20th Feb 2024 16:38

"Can a payroll be run and submitted to HMRC if the employee has no fixed address?"

This is why I hate (yeah apologies I know that's a strong word) any question that starts with "Can I ..."

The strict and *practical* answer is ... you can only report the resultant payrun details (under RTI) for this person where that return includes 'an' address for that person.
And that address will (in the vast majority of situations) be used by HMRC as part of the Employment record they create on their PAYE systems for that individual - which amongst other things means that is where they will write to with anything that they regard as important for that person.
But it also then becomes part of the set of data they use when 'matching' subsequent returns (from this or other employments) and the records they share with DWP (for UC and other benefits) ... and frequent changes or inconsistencies can lead to the kind of SNAFU that takes years to unravel.

So ... a payroll can be run and submitted to HMRC if the employee has AN address, but with many potential knock-on effects (not just those I've mentioned).

A quite separate question is what, if anything, is legally meant by the specific term 'fixed address' ... which is not my area but taxdigital is pointing at areas of potential concern for OP.

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By kestrepo
20th Feb 2024 17:03

As an alternative to using the company's own address I believe that the Job Centre has systems in place for helping the homeless find and maintain employment . You could ask the employee to register at their local Job Centre so that they will accept employment related correspondence on behalf of the employee (some local councils might do this too I think).

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By [email protected]
22nd Feb 2024 09:59

Use the payroll office address? That's what the army pay corp did for someone in the TA. The result was that HMRC considered this the latest notified address and moved Dulwich to Scotland (apparently the pay office is in Glasgow)... (for Scottish tax rates). When I phoned HMRC about it I was told 'I don't think I can change that...'. I suggested it might produce an amusing story on this site and funnily enough they could sort it.

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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 10:01

So how will the employee be paid as presumably to have a bank account he/she will need a residential address. Same with pension contributions . Can't pay him/her in cash.

Also regarding the NI number - how does HMRC inform of any tax code changes. If the employee was previously on JSA then again there must be an address used.

the OP has not given any reason for why there is no fixed address. Much would depend on background checks. A UK residential address and proof of right to work should be provided. I'd use the address linked to the bank account where the paye will go. If there's no bank account it won't be possible to put the person on paye.

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Replying to C Graham:
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By Matrix
22nd Feb 2024 10:14

All issues for the employer surely.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 10:23

the employer should have sent on a starter questionnaire or P45 (would need an NI number and tax code) So payroll wouldn't onboard a new employee without that information.

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Replying to C Graham:
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By FactChecker
22nd Feb 2024 13:03

Sorry but ... "Can't pay him/her in cash" and "If there's no bank account it won't be possible to put the person on paye" just aren't true.
Both are within the remit of the Employer to decide whether or not to operate that way - but there's nothing that prevents payment in cash or mandates having a bank account.

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Replying to FactChecker:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 13:46

good luck getting physical cash these days.

Yes you are right - it is theoretically possible but most employers won't. Plus the employee still has to have an NI number which relates to a given address. You cannot apply for an NI number without an address. So I can't see how you could put someone on paye even if you were prepared to give them an envelope of notes each month.

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Replying to C Graham:
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By FactChecker
22nd Feb 2024 17:10

"good luck getting physical cash these days."
Well it may be getting rarer but it's still not that uncommon in various sectors.
[I'll admit to being of a vintage where one of the key calcs performed by Payroll software was where it listed the exact quantity of each denomination (notes and coins) needed for withdrawing from the bank, and the same breakdown for each employee's net pay - so the wages clerk had no excuse when filling the little brown envelopes.]

BUT you're at it again with sweeping statements that aren't actually correct:
* "the employee still has to have an NI number which relates to a given address."
You may well need an address when you first apply for a NINO - but there is no ongoing relationship between the two items (so you can change address or indeed become 'of no fixed abode' without this invalidating your pre-existing NINO or forcing you to change it)!

And finally you don't even "have to have a NINO" for an employee before putting them on your Payroll (and then reporting payments to HMRC via RTI).
That is a common misconception, but not one that should be promulgated here amongst professionals.

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Replying to FactChecker:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 18:00

if an employee is waiting for an NI - ie new to the UK and has applied then they can be added temporarily using a ref eg dob. We usually just ask for proof of the appt to show it has been applied for. But not having one would raise new questions about their legal status to work in the UK. Applying first time that employee needs an address regardless of if that later changes/employee moves etc.

WOW - wages clerks! that must be some vintage.

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Replying to C Graham:
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By FactChecker
22nd Feb 2024 18:52

My vintage certainly goes all the way back to 1970 (payroll calcs by hand and entries on P11 sheets etc).
But my point is that I only sold up a couple of years ago - having worked closely with HMRC particularly through the development of RTI - and had a few clients who still relied on that functionality in our software when paying staff (typically casuals) in cash.

But, without wishing to seem that my job is to keep correcting you, it simply isn't true to say that in the absence of a NINO for a new employee "they can be added temporarily using a ref eg dob".
Adding them (i.e. starting a new Employment) isn't temporary ... and you don't (indeed must not) use any 'alternative' ref (as in the old days where DoB might be inserted in the NINO field - that option disappeared over a decade ago).
You must indeed provide all sorts of other data for each employee (which will include, but not exclusively, DoB) - and must do so irrespective of whether or not a NINO is entered (as otherwise the record will be rejected by HMRC's portal).
Eventually HMRC should send the employer a notification of the missing or new NINO - and this will be used by the employer for that employee on all subsequent RTI submissions, as part of the *continuing* employment (not a separate one to a previous temporary one).

And "not having one would raise new questions about their legal status to work in the UK" raises a major red flag in Employment legislative compliance.
The 'right to work' status should be checked for each new employee before their contract commences ... and if they don't want to risk being in deep doo-dah then the employer had better be using exactly the same criteria and checks for EVERY such potential new employee.
Any sign that shortcuts have been taken (by for instance making assumptions like 'a NINO means they're OK' or 'they looked British') leaves the employer open to prosecution - and to discrimination claims by rejected potential employees.

I'm sure you'll be glad to know that I'm done 'lecturing' on this thread ... but it is really important that wrong information on here is corrected, so others don't accept as 'facts' things that are anything but that - as gospel.

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Replying to FactChecker:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 20:06

'has applied then they can be added, temporarily using a ref'
(see added comma!)

The 'right to work' status should be checked for each new employee - yes indeed. I didn't suggest otherwise.

'.. and you don't (indeed must not) use any 'alternative' ref '
(actually IRIS says to use passport number in the field until you can update with the NINO .

Not contesting your knowledge on the subject or formidable lengthy experience - nor even trying to have the last word. Merely just tweaking the finer detail to clarify where some ambiguity occurred.

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Replying to FactChecker:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 18:01

if an employee is waiting for an NI - ie new to the UK and has applied then they can be added temporarily using a ref eg dob. We usually just ask for proof of the appt to show it has been applied for. But not having one would raise new questions about their legal status to work in the UK. Applying first time that employee needs an address regardless of if that later changes/employee moves etc.

WOW - wages clerks! that must be some vintage.

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By fitzroy
22nd Feb 2024 10:51

There are many thousands living on canal boats without permanent moorings, as well as travellers, who have no fixed address but who work either self-employed or short-term employment or claim benefits (perfectly legitimately). They usually use Poste Restante of whichever is their nearest Post Office at the time, and from time to time update this address with HMRC as they move location. I understand it works extremely well:
https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/poste-restante

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Replying to fitzroy:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 11:06

that's completely different - it is just a PO box ie to hold and pick up mail if not resident. It doesn't replace a residential address. Place of abode. It is not a correspondence address.
And their website is clear
The Poste Restante service is operated at the discretion of the Royal Mail/Post Office Limited . The service cannot be used for more than 3 months within the same UK town.

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By Ruddles
22nd Feb 2024 13:57

In a similar vein:

Can a payroll be run and submitted to HMRC if the employee has no fixed gender?

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 14:14

yes - they provide a gender recognition certificate to their employer which updates their records with HMRC.

However not sure how this would affect someone born male but identifying female when it comes to SMP or healthcare (biological females tend to have higher private health costs) - haven't come across it as a question before.

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Replying to C Graham:
By Ruddles
22nd Feb 2024 14:40

Ah, but ...

GRC is effectively fixing one's gender. I'm talking about the person/cat that doesn't want to do so.

You obviously haven't seen the recent thread on this topic ;¬)

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 15:52

no - do you have a link?

Probably I shouldn't read it - much as I love cats. Real cats. With the ability to see in the dusk and eat small rodents.

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Replying to Ruddles:
By SteveHa
22nd Feb 2024 16:00

Our cat (who is imaginatively named Kat) has never once indicated a desire to change gender, nor mentioned any other cats in the neighbourhood that have. Where are all of these gender fluid cats suddenly appearing from (and yes, I'm well aware of the YouTube videos of cats emulating fluid by pouring themselves into boxes, vases etc.)

EDIT: Having said that, she hates anyone that is not me or my missus, people or cats (or dogs, or mice and voles given the number she kills etc.) so maybe no-one has let her in on the secret.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By C Graham
22nd Feb 2024 16:15

rumour has it that there's an impartial job going in the house of commons - perhaps that neutrality of a role would suit said person/cat.

the sound of flea spray is a good test of whether the cat identifying as a cat really is a cat. Our previous cat considered himself a dog most of the time. Except when he was getting out of the top bedroom window and climbing down the wisteria to get outside.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By More unearned luck
22nd Feb 2024 16:59

I understand that queens find mating very painful owing to barbs on the *** of toms. So I would expect that eight out of ten queens who expressed a preference would opt for a gender change.

Kat is your cat's her everyday name. Perhaps her fancier name is Cleokatra. The name that is particular and used to help keep her tail perpendicular (or something like that). And no one knows her effanineffable third name, of course.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By DKB-Sheffield
22nd Feb 2024 23:31

SteveHa wrote:

(or dogs, or mice and voles given the number she kills etc.) so maybe no-one has let her in on the secret.

Wow... that's some cat! A mass murderer of dogs!

Maybe we're less Macavity and more Pekes and Pollicles!

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By ruth.julian
27th Feb 2024 18:46

A homeless person who slept in our church doorway was considered to have a residence and permanent address for housing/benefits. We found this out when trying to get him a permanent home through the local council!

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