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I've acted for a farmer for the last 10 years or so and, he's been retired for around the last five years.

I've a couple of Forms R40 with HMRC and, in May this year, they advised that they were unable to locate the claim for 2008/09. However, they were aware that I'd submitted the claim for 2009/10 and they suggested that; I resubmit the earlier claim and they would then deal with both claims together.

The above sets the scene, so to speak and, as shown above, it would be quite clear that this particular taxpayer, has instructed an agent.

Over the week-end, I've received the agents copy of a tax calculation, for 2010/11which shows the client is due to a refund of over £800 and, from what I can see, the calculation includes accurate information and income from; state pension, Paye income (small annuity), bank and building society interest and untaxed interest. Being aware of my client's savings/investment income, the list would have been quite long!

I contacted my client to make sure that; he hadn't completed the claim for 2010/11 on his own, or, give instructions, to an alternate. The answer, negative in both cases.

I've therefore, somehow "lost out" here, on the one hand, with regard to my fee income but, equally importantly, will HMRC now be calculating all the elderly taxpayers refunds, at the same time as they are seeking collection of tax which is underpaid? Of course they won't.

And I mistakenly thought that our tax system was supposedly fair!


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26th Sep 2011 09:20

2 things come to mind

State pension and annuity would have been already entered on record I think.

The first possibility is that the investment income is the missing 2008/9, and the second that it relates to someone else entirely.

Wouldn't it be lovely to think that the small repayment cases who in the main are unrepresented would be receiving such a wonderful service!!


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By ACDWebb
26th Sep 2011 09:26

Interesting it has investment income included

otherwise I would have said that it was part of this years PAYE reconcilliation SNAFU by HMRC where they seem to be getting just the PAYE details, generally in isolation to anything else, and generating refunds regardless of clients other income.

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26th Sep 2011 11:54

Nothing surprises me

the client has received the cheque this morning and, given the circumstances, wonders what to do.

Speaking to the agents dedicated helpline it's become clear that the savings and investment details have been taken from a coding notice! HMRC now agree that the calculation is inaccurate and, when asked what the client should do with the cheque, the reply, initially, was "what they like"! When asked again, the operator took further advice and, the secondary response was, "destroy the cheque".

I've been asked to put my concerns (with regard to the calculation) in writing and that will be dealt with in normal course (so a six to eight week delay then).

Once again, due to what have become daily errors in this department, I've lost over three quarters of an hour of time, for no good whatsoever. Please don't suggest an additional costs claim, as they seem to be challenged at very opportunity. Oh, how I wish I'd embarked on a difference career.

EDIT (sorry) - Different career (just brassed off this morning)


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26th Sep 2011 11:44


Time for change PM | Mon, 26/09/2011 - 10:53 | Permalink

. Oh, how I wish I'd embarked on a difference career. 




Just think - you could have been a tax inspector :)

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27th Sep 2011 10:56

Bank the cheque

I would tell client to bank the cheque, complete the accurate claim soonest, and send it with your appeal against the tax calculation. Is it likely the repayment is excessive or the other way round? In either case an over repayment cannot result in an interest charge if repaid before 31/1 as that is the due date for any liability!

As long as client is aware he may have to refund some of it I don't see a problem with boosting his bank balance temporarily. In my experience destroying a cheque results in longer and more complicated procedures with Worthing which you would do well to avoid

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28th Sep 2011 11:19


We also have a client who is in a similar situation - HMRC have used her interest & dividend figures for 2009/10 to issue her with a repayment for 2010/11.

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28th Sep 2011 14:10

Me too!

Our client received the tax repayment due to her in two separate cheques. One following HMRC's calculation based on estimated figures (issued automatically by the computer this year, I believe) with the balance coming after submission of the R40. What a waste of time and paper! Nothing new there though . . .

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By CathyB
29th Sep 2011 09:52

HMRC training

I have had the same issue, 2010/11 refund issued on 2009/10 figures, no R40 yet submitted.  When I rang I was told that it had been used as a training excercise and was supposed to be cancelled before the repayment was actually made.  Unfortuantely, the trainee got excited and pushed the button!

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to Old Greying Accountant
29th Sep 2011 10:10

Just imagine

the excitement (currently) within HM Revenue & Customs. You could almost fall off your chair, just thinking about it!

I'm just glad that Dave and Nick are on the case. I sleep much better at night knowing that my country is in such safe hands!

What an absolute shambles and, no one, absolutely no one, seems bothered?

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