Extending first year on Companies House

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Client late with paperwork so no chance for first year end but looking at changing year end anyway, as didn't start trading until January 2021.   Companies House say filing deadline doesn't change if extending first year, but if  I was to shorten first year by a day to get 3 months extra, and then extend it (say) in a months time, would the filing date remain as November?

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RLI
By lionofludesch
15th Aug 2022 23:16

Dunno. What was the formation date?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By legerman
16th Aug 2022 11:17

lionofludesch wrote:

Dunno. What was the formation date?

November 2020. Deadline is today, I shortened the accounts year end last night by a day (didn't know whether it would work if I did it today) so I now have until the 16th November to file but what I now want to know is if I lengthen the accounting date to 31st December 2021 will I still have until November to file?

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David Winch
By David Winch
16th Aug 2022 07:15

The company's first accounting period has to be more than 6 months but not more than 18 months long. The due date for filing is set by s442 Companies Act 2006:-
(2) The period is—

(a) for a private company, nine months after the end of the relevant accounting reference period, and

(b) for a public company, six months after the end of that period.

This is subject to the following provisions of this section.

(3) If the relevant accounting reference period is the company's first and is a period of more than twelve months, the period is—

(a) nine months or six months, as the case may be, from the first anniversary of the incorporation of the company, or

(b) three months after the end of the accounting reference period,

whichever last expires.

(4) If the relevant accounting reference period is treated as shortened by virtue of a notice given by the company under section 392 (alteration of accounting reference date), the period is—

(a) that applicable in accordance with the above provisions, or

(b) three months from the date of the notice under that section,

whichever last expires.

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By rmillaree
16th Aug 2022 08:12

I have seen lengthening year ends end up with a filing deadline before the day the act of lengthening was done - when those accounts were not late before the period was lengthened , i am guessing that scenario is similar to what you are looking to do so i would steer well clear unless companies house give confirmation change is ok in writing.

note i suspect you may get some extra time if the following caveat is met but not 3 months extra !

(b) three months after the end of the accounting reference period,
whichever last expires.

However if you extend then shorten the year end !!! then its probably bobs your uncle as long as acounts are not late when you extend and you shorten before relevant filing deadline that applies after extending.

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Replying to rmillaree:
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By legerman
16th Aug 2022 11:09

rmillaree wrote:

However if you extend then shorten the year end !!! then its probably bobs your uncle as long as acounts are not late when you extend and you shorten before relevant filing deadline that applies after extending.

I never thought of doing it that way round, but I would have had to do both today at the latest. What I was planning to do was shorten to get the extra 3 months (which I now have) then lengthen it once it's ready for filing. My concern is would Co House change the filing date back to 16th August or would it remain at 16th November?

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Replying to legerman:
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By rmillaree
16th Aug 2022 11:24

" What I was planning to do was shorten to get the extra 3 months (which I now have) then lengthen it once it's ready for filing. My concern is would Co House change the filing date back to 16th August or would it remain at 16th November?"

I would share your concerns doing it your route - suspect that does happen and screws you over

- 95% plus of the time i extend year end its updated within 5-10 minues if i am doing during office hours and its not known that site is down. So in theory you probably can have your cake and eat it - i am presuming you have not previously "shortened the year end" - if you have already shortened (or lenghtened) year end already and given extra time i suspect you simply cannot extend now if that gives you earlier date - if you have not shortened previously and are in time the act of extending should never create an earlier date.

Obviously its all at your own risk you would have to be mad to presume what anyone else says in this regard is correct.

The fact you mention 16th August suggests you may have already done something with the year end already that you have not made clear here has happened?

Ie has your "proposed" shortening already been done previously ?

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Replying to Matrix:
David Winch
By David Winch
16th Aug 2022 09:26

But the filing deadline remains 9 months after the first anniversary of incorporation.

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Replying to davidwinch:
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By Matrix
16th Aug 2022 09:31

This is to extend the filing deadline, not the accounting period.

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Replying to Matrix:
David Winch
By David Winch
16th Aug 2022 09:47

OK, but when does he have to set fire to his accounting records?

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Replying to Matrix:
RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Aug 2022 10:39

Matrix wrote:

This is to extend the filing deadline, not the accounting period.

It doesn't, though, does it?

21 months after incorporation would still be the later date.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Matrix
16th Aug 2022 10:57

I haven’t done it for a while but there is a list of reasons including Covid and accounting issues and I thought it worked for new companies. I don’t see why the OP doesn’t try it assuming they know the reason for the delay.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By legerman
16th Aug 2022 11:16

Matrix wrote:

I haven’t done it for a while but there is a list of reasons including Covid and accounting issues and I thought it worked for new companies. I don’t see why the OP doesn’t try it assuming they know the reason for the delay.

My initial plan was just to extend the accounting period to end of December instead of November but Companies House specifically state that the filing date won't be extended if it's the first year. My suggested work round is to shorten the accounting period by one day, to get the extra 3 months, then lengthen, but what I don't want to happen is they revert the deadline back to August.

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Replying to davidwinch:
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By ABD
19th Aug 2022 10:52

Hi David

Companies still grant a 3 month extension from the date of shortening even for the 1st year accounts!!

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By Charlie Carne
20th Aug 2022 11:20

The short answer is no.

As you have said, shortening the period of account makes the filing deadline the later of (i) the original deadline (9 months after the y/e, subject to the extra '21 months from incorporation' restriction for any first accounts which exceed 12 months) and (ii) 3 months following the date on which the application to change the ARD (Accounting Reference Date) is made. Assuming that the ARD change is made very close to the filing deadline, this effectively extends the filing deadline by 3 months from its original date, thus making it 12 months from the y/e. This 3 month extension still applies to first accounts that are longer than 12 months, so those could be filed as late as 24 months after incorporation, if the change of ARD to shorten the period was made on the 21-month deadline day.

The rules on extending the period of account, however, work differently. In this case, (per Companies House's interpretation of s442 Companies Act 2006, as David Winch listed above) the new filing deadline ignores the original filing deadline and, instead of being the later of two options, it uses the standard rule for calculating the deadline, but based upon the new ARD*. This can, therefore, bring the deadline forward from its current position and you can move from being on time (i.e. with a filing deadline in the future) right now to being late (i.e. the deadline has moved to the past) a few minutes later, having only filed a change in ARD!

For example, a company has a y/e of 31/12/21 and its filing deadline is 30/9/22. On 30/9/22, you file to change its ARD to 30/12/21 (i.e. shorten the period by one day) and its filing deadline now becomes 30/12/22 (3 months after filing the change in ARD). On 30/12/22, you are ready to file accounts for 31/12/21 so you revert the ARD to 31/12/21 (i.e. extend the period by one day). Now, the filing deadline becomes 9 months after this new ARD of 31/12/21, which is 30/9/22, which is in the past and you are already late and will be due a penalty when you file. And, as it's late, you cannot now change the ARD again (eg to shorten the period again to get another 3 months). But here's the key point: you don't need to change the ARD to file to 31/12/21, because a set of accounts can be drawn up to a date of up to 7 days either side of the ARD. Since the ARD (after the shortening) is 30/12/21, a set of accounts to 31/12/21 is acceptable. If you wish, after filing accounts to 31/12/21, you can apply to change the next ARD from 30/12/22 to 31/12/22, as that will not be due until 30/9/23, so you have plenty of time. But note that an extension will only be granted once every five years, unlike a shortening which can be applied as often as desired.

*As noted above, Companies House interpret s442 to mean that the extra 3 months granted by sub-section (4) is ignored if a subsequent application is made to extend again (for the same set of accounts). I would argue that, as sub-section (2) (which states that the filing deadline is 9 months) has been over-ridden by sub-section (4), then there is nothing in s442 to change it again for a subsequent extension. Sub-section (4) can be applied a second time if the ARD is changed to grant a further shortening, but there is nothing in s442 to cancel the extended filing deadline.

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