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filling form SA105 of SA tax return

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if one has more than one property and these are all rented out, do we have to fill in a seprate page of the self assement tax return for each propety

or else the total income and expenses are consolidated and one figure of all the let properties is completed in self assessment land and propertt

page of the tax return

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By JDBENJAMIN
05th Dec 2019 19:36

You should either hire an accountant, or else use HMRC help sheets if you want to do it yourself. Either method should give you the answer.

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By penelope pitstop
06th Dec 2019 01:18

Is your name an anagram of "another lothario"?

Due to my dyslexia I cannot quite tell.

But it sure looks like it!

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Replying to penelope pitstop:
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By John Stone
06th Dec 2019 07:58

A bit short on 'o's I'm afraid.

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By SXGuy
06th Dec 2019 08:31

If you actually read the page, theres a massive giveaway right at the top where it says " Number of properties rented out "

My Advice would be, that if you cant answer your question by deciphering the most simplest of questions on the page, id worry what else you may not understand, and id seek an accountant.

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By Wanderer
06th Dec 2019 09:13

nathluthra wrote:

if one has more than one property and these are all rented out, do we have to fill in a seprate page of the self assement tax return for each propety

or else the total income and expenses are consolidated and one figure of all the let properties is completed in self assessment land and propertt

page of the tax return

Depends on the nature, mix and location of the properties and how they are rented out.
Take the advice already given and appoint an accountant.
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RLI
By lionofludesch
06th Dec 2019 09:27

Engaging an accountants will pay dividends.

Property tax is complicated these days. Decisions you make can lead to surprising results.

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By bernard michael
06th Dec 2019 09:59

You have the alternative of accounting for each property individually ........ but why would you ?

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By Bob Loblaw
06th Dec 2019 10:06

Submit several separate tax returns, each showing the income and expenses from one property. If you have other income apportion it equally across all of the different returns. You'll only be able to submit one online so submit the rest by post/fax/carrier pigeon/nestled inside a stack of Russian Dolls.

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Replying to Bob Loblaw:
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By Bob Loblaw
06th Dec 2019 10:11

Or, pop the number of properties into the box that says 'Number of properties rented out' and (assuming they're all regular UK lettings not FHL etc yadda) use your TI-59 to add the income together and the expenses together and do a filly box job. Only choose this option if you're a COWARD.

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By nathluthra
06th Dec 2019 11:48

Dear SxGuy
I do not think that you understood my question. Whatever is on the form
is quite clear but what is not that I am looking the answer for ?
Number of properties let has always been there but if you can read further on the top of Box 20 of the return, it says property" and not properties. I think
you may seek help to learn what is singular and plural in English dictionary.
Further I had through the guidance note on this page, can you tell me where the answer to my question appears ?

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Replying to nathluthra:
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By Wanderer
06th Dec 2019 12:29

nathluthra wrote:

......but if you can read further on the top of Box 20 of the return, it says property" and not properties. I think
you may seek help to learn what is singular and plural in English dictionary.
Further I had through the guidance note on this page, can you tell me where the answer to my question appears ?

You have completely misinterpreted that. It says "Total rents and income from property" It doesn't say "Total rents and income from a property".
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Replying to nathluthra:
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By lionofludesch
06th Dec 2019 12:56

nathluthra wrote:

Dear SxGuy
I think you may seek help to learn what is singular and plural in English dictionary.

Not helping yourself there, pal.

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Replying to nathluthra:
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By SXGuy
06th Dec 2019 14:46

Well that just proved my point if nothing else did.

Perhaps I best not mention the other box that says "Total Rent(s) received"

I gave you your answer. What you do with it, whether take it on board or ignore it is your choice. But I can't be any clearer than I was in my initial post.

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Replying to nathluthra:
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By JDBENJAMIN
06th Dec 2019 15:11

it's funny you telling someone else that they need to improve their understanding of written English!

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By richard thomas
06th Dec 2019 12:49

There seems to be an awful lot of unfounded assumptions being made by both the OP and several commenting.

The law is clear. Section 260(1)(a) ITTOIA provides that tax is charged under Part 3 of that Act on income from a property business, that is (s 264) income from all transactions for generating income from land in the UK, whether from an actual business or just transactions falling short of business.

That means that where you obtain income from more than one property you aggregate the rents etc from each and the expenses for each plus general overheads to arrive at the amount of income chargeable to tax.

Box 1 on page UKP 1 asking for the number of properties is simply for HMRC's benefit, presumably going to risk assessment. If the answer in box 1 is 20 and the rents are £5,000 questions may be asked. But nothing in tax law turns on the number of properties like it did in the old (pre-1998) days of non-tenant's repairing leases, tenant's repairing leases, leases not at arm's length, lands managed as one estate and expenses of easements such as sporting rights.

I agree it is not entirely obvious from the SA105 that boxes 20 onwards require the income from all properties to be aggregated, but the fact that the heading before box 20 is "Property income", not "Properties income" is nothing to do with any requirement to put the detail of a second or more property on another SA105. OP does not seem to understand the concept of count and non-count nouns, or that "Properties income" is not grammatical.

But be that as it may, the Guidance Notes (UK Property Notes) to which a taxpayer is referred at the top of the SA105 make it clear at page UKPN 5 what is to go in Box 20 ff. The absence of any statement that if there is more than one property more than one SA105 is required (compare the position with that for employment and pensions) is also telling.

It is not difficult for a non-accountant to complete the SA105 correctly (it cannot be, because I can do it despite not being an accountant). You are helped by the fact that the cash basis is the default for allocating receipts and expenses for the tax year and by HMRC accepting a total (and global of course) figure for expenses if turnover is below £85,000 (see SA105 Notes UKPN 6 under "Property expenses".

Nothing stops you compiling accounts for each property separately for your own purposes, but HMRC do not want or need them like that.

If you are claiming relief for loan or mortgage interest incurred to buy any of the properties you need to study the guidance notes.

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Replying to richard thomas:
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By Wanderer
06th Dec 2019 13:16

richard thomas wrote:

That means that where you obtain income from more than one property you aggregate the rents etc from each and the expenses for each plus general overheads to arrive at the amount of income chargeable to tax.

Except for those circumstances where you don't.
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Replying to richard thomas:
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By SXGuy
06th Dec 2019 14:53

My comment regarding the box which says number of rental properties was meant to indicate to the op that the figures can be placed on one page rather than separate pages and was not in any way intended to imply that the box was used by hmrc to determine the total rents split by the number of said properties.

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