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Furloughed employee giving notice but.............

Employer giving counter notice

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A furloughed employee has given 1 months notice per the employment contract but the employer has served a counter notice of 1 week. There is no misconduct involved. Is this legal?  I think not as in my opinion the contract is closed by the employee getting there first

Any opinions gartefully received

Replies (35)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 10:47

I agree.

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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 11:02

Tribunal on its way

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 11:04

Over three weeks pay ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 12:01

No win no fee
With a guaranteed win

Edit
Not guaranteed if contract permits shorter notice from employer

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Matrix
03rd Jul 2020 12:00

lionofludesch wrote:

Over three weeks pay ?


x 20%
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Replying to Matrix:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 12:03

To employee 100% of three weeks
To employer 20% of three weeks

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 12:05

Paul Crowley wrote:

To employee 100% of three weeks
To employer 20% of three weeks

If the employee gives notice, why does the employer have to top up furlough pay ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 12:40

Even more reason to castigate employer

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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 11:13

Employer thinks it wrong that employee is already working elsewhere whilst furloughed?

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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 11:14

No he starts the new job 1st August

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By legerman
03rd Jul 2020 11:14

If employment is less than 2 years then the employer doesn't need to give a reason for dismissal. I may be wrong but I think the employer is legally within their rights to do this, although I do agree it's underhand of them.

The employee has exercised their right to give notice, and the employer has also exercised their right to give notice.

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Replying to legerman:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 11:21

The answer is surely in the employment contract, if it exists.
If on furlough, how much does employer gain by being unhelpful?

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By legerman
03rd Jul 2020 11:33

Paul Crowley wrote:

The answer is surely in the employment contract, if it exists.
If on furlough, how much does employer gain by being unhelpful?

Absolutely no reason not to extend their furlough to 31st July

EDITED, I really must learn to read.

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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 11:37

The contract clearly states the employee is required to give the employer one month's notice whereas the employer only has to give 1 week's notice for the 1st 2 years (which this is).
The employer is trying to save 3 weeks pay
It's irrelevant to this but this action is taking place in Scotland

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By legerman
03rd Jul 2020 11:59

bernard michael wrote:

The contract clearly states the employee is required to give the employer one month's notice whereas the employer only has to give 1 week's notice for the 1st 2 years (which this is).
The employer is trying to save 3 weeks pay
It's irrelevant to this but this action is taking place in Scotland

Not even that Bernard, furlough to 31st July and top up the furlough pay to the employee's usual pay for the period. Are you in a position to influence? It may be the employer hasn't realised that.

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Replying to legerman:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 12:06

Concur
Is 20% of three weeks worth the foul taste in mouth that his other employees can taste.

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Replying to legerman:
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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 15:12

I have no contact with the employer and the employee is a relative of an old rugby friend

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By SteveHa
03rd Jul 2020 11:55

The employer is as bound by the contract as the employee is. If the employer wants him gone after a week, then fine. He's still got to pay the contractual notice.

EDIT: IGNORE ME. I hadn't seen bernard's reply immediately before mine.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By legerman
03rd Jul 2020 11:56

SteveHa wrote:

The employer is as bound by the contract as the employee is. If the employer wants him gone after a week, then fine. He's still got to pay the contractual notice.

Not saying you're wrong, but would be interested in seeing something to back that up. I see the employers right to give a weeks notice superseding the employee's right, but I could be wrong.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 12:00

Agree
differing notice periods critical to understanding

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By paul.benny
03rd Jul 2020 11:45

The employer's actions look and feel wrong - but that doesn't make them unlawful. I think this is a question best directed to acas.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 12:21

Can we just recap here ?

If the employer accepts the resignation, it costs him 80% of the employee's normal pay for four weeks, which he gets back in full from the Government.

If he trumps it with his own notice of dismissal, it costs him 100% of a week's pay , which he has to pay himself. Even if he's successful at Tribunal. Which seems unlikely. And, if he loses, he'll probably be out of time to claim CJRS.

Is this lad a fool or what ?

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Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
03rd Jul 2020 12:57

https://www.redmans.co.uk/resignation-from-work-a-guide/#7

Can my employer terminate my employment after I’ve given my notice?
There are generally three circumstances in which your employer could terminate your employment after you’ve given notice of termination:

Counter-notice by your employer: there is no statutory provision for the employer to give counter–notice following receipt of notice from the employee. However, there are certain circumstances in which they may do so;
Termination by your employer and paying you in lieu of notice: if your contract allows it then your employer may terminate your employment immediately and pay you a sum of money in lieu of the sums you are entitled to during your notice period;
Summary termination by your employer: there are circumstances in which your employer could terminate your employment without notice – for example, if, during your period of notice, your employer finds you guilty of gross misconduct then it could elect to terminate your employment summarily. You may have a claim for unfair dismissal in such circumstances

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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 13:07

An Update
The employee has been an active little B
The AWEB advice given agrees with that of Peninsular, ACAS, CAB 2 firms of solicitors and a Scottish employment lawyer
ie
The employee giving notice in accordance with the contract means that the employers attempt to give a shorter period is to be treated only as as an offer and not being contractually binding

Thanks everyone

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Replying to bernard michael:
By SteveHa
03rd Jul 2020 13:10

I'm 1,000% sure that the employee will accept the offer of 1 week's pay instead of 4 week's.

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 13:14

Hooray
Employee gets his entitlement

And has every right to tell the entire World what a ***** the employer is.

With the accidental unintended benefit of making the employer a bit richer, in money terms only

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 14:10

Paul Crowley wrote:

Hooray
Employee gets his entitlement

And has every right to tell the entire World what a ***** the employer is.

With the accidental unintended benefit of making the employer a bit richer, in money terms only

The employer is sticking to 1 week so how has the employee got his entitlement ??

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By Paul Crowley
04th Jul 2020 11:18

So that it it then
Back to no win no fee

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By Matrix
03rd Jul 2020 13:13

Wouldn’t it have been cheaper just to bear the 20% rather than the time and fees spent contacting all the advisers? Or nil according to Lion.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By Paul Crowley
03rd Jul 2020 13:16

I may be wrong but it looks like the person taking advice was the employee

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 14:08

Paul Crowley wrote:

I may be wrong but it looks like the person taking advice was the employee


You're correct
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Replying to bernard michael:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 13:16

bernard michael wrote:

An Update
The employee has been an active little B
The AWEB advice given agrees with that of Peninsular, ACAS, CAB 2 firms of solicitors and a Scottish employment lawyer

Ah, Scotland.

First time I've noticed Scotland being mentioned.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 14:07

lionofludesch wrote:

bernard michael wrote:

An Update
The employee has been an active little B
The AWEB advice given agrees with that of Peninsular, ACAS, CAB 2 firms of solicitors and a Scottish employment lawyer

Ah, Scotland.

First time I've noticed Scotland being mentioned.


I didn't want to be accused of r****** !!
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Replying to bernard michael:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Jul 2020 14:14

bernard michael wrote:

I didn't want to be accused of r****** !!

Happen. But it's a legal question from another jurisdiction.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By bernard michael
03rd Jul 2020 14:23

lionofludesch wrote:

bernard michael wrote:
I didn't want to be accused of r****** !!

Happen. But it's a legal question from another jurisdiction.

Hence he contacted a Scottish lawyer

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