Getting a national insurance number

The challenges of getting a national insurance number

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Our husband and wife UK resident clients have recently acquired an investment property.  Mrs client is Mongolian and will now need to complete a UK tax return to report the rental income. She has no UTR and no national insurance number.  I can’t get a UTR without a national insurance number but there seems to be an impasse.  It appears that the only way to get a national insurance number is to go to the job centre.  However Mrs client cannot speak English and therefore would normally be accompanied by her english speaking son. However the job centre forbid anyone to accomapny the attendee to the National insurance number interview. Has anyone come across this rather bizarre situation before where we are trying to get our client to pay UK tax but struggling to do so?

Replies (9)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Dec 2019 13:52

I may be argumentative but I'd be tempted to notify HMRC that she's got income to declare and let them sort it out.

I can't be doing with Government "Computer says no" stupidity. Do they want this tax or not ?

More practically, if she can't take her own interpreter, tell the Jobcentre they'll be needing one.

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By Pukka
20th Dec 2019 14:10

Assuming it is for 2019/20 I'd agree with Lion.
Send a paper SA1 (SA registration), paper 64-8 & paper 19/20 tax return - job done.
Recorded delivery of course!
Client should get a letter back with UTR.

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Replying to Pukka:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Dec 2019 14:30

Pukka wrote:

Assuming it is for 2019/20 I'd agree with Lion.
Send a paper SA1 (SA registration), paper 64-8 & paper 19/20 tax return - job done.
Recorded delivery of course!
Client should get a letter back with UTR.

A brief note of the circumstances won't do any harm, obviously.

Much easier to do that with a letter.

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By brian-scholar
20th Dec 2019 16:38

That can't be right! What if the individual is disabled and needs a carer to accompany them? They can't get a national insurance number!

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Replying to brian-scholar:
RLI
By lionofludesch
20th Dec 2019 16:42

brian-scholar wrote:

That can't be right! What if the individual is disabled and needs a carer to accompany them? They can't get a national insurance number!

If the computer says no .......

In fairness, I can see why the Jobcentre may prefer their own interpreter.

The chap that comes with the applicant could be saying anything.

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By Wanderer
20th Dec 2019 17:23

You don't need an NI number to get a UTR.
Having said that it's next to impossible to get through 'the system' without one.
In a similar case to the OP's it took just over 18 months from first contact to get the UTR .
One of the few instances I had ask the the Agent Account Manager to intervene.
Shortly after they assigned a second one!

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By David Treitel
22nd Dec 2019 08:08

Some of you may know that I represent the ICAEW on HMRCs Expat Forum. HMRCs Q&A Log in May 2019 was updated to include the following advice from HMRC:

"Obtaining a UTR

Forum members advised of difficulties in obtaining a UTR when the individual does not have a NINO and/or there is no RTI information available. During the call our Operations representative, xxx Smith, advised that a letter will be created which members can use in this situation. The Operations team have been informed that if they receive any requests with a statement similar to the outline below, it should be clear that no RTI submission is expected, and therefore a standalone Self-Assessment record (and UTR) can be created:-

“We are applying for a UTR for our client and enclose the necessary signed forms SA1 and 64-8.

***T/p Name *** was an inward assignee to the UK. **T/P Name*** was in receipt of taxable earnings for UK workdays in (Tax Year) and needs to submit a Self-Assessment return(s). PAYE was not operated on his/her earnings and as such a standalone SA record is required. Please let us have the UTR and notice(s) to file for ***Tax Year*** only (*or multiple years**)”.

*Delete as appropriate "

David Treitel | Managing Director | American Tax Returns Ltd
The Old Exchange, 12 Compton Road, London, SW19 7QD

Tel: 020 3542 6330
Email: [email protected]

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By David Heaton
23rd Dec 2019 10:59

If Mrs Client has no earnings, she has no obligation to request a NINO and HMRC has no power to issue one. Ignore the computer and do as others have suggested - send in a paper SA1 to request a UTR and a letter explaining that no NINO is required.

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