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Getting hold of previous accounts (CT600

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Having taken over the accounts for a client I took on last year, I failed to ask for a breakdown of debtors and creditors, so all I have is a total for each.  I've allocated those I can match, but still have a shortfall on both.

I believe I can contact HMRC Corpotation Tax and ask them to send a copy of the CT600 accounts, is that correct?  Anyone know how long this is currently taking please?

Replies (21)

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By johngroganjga
01st Dec 2021 11:17

If you need a copy of last year’s accounts why can’t your new client provide them?

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Replying to johngroganjga:
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By legerman
01st Dec 2021 11:33

johngroganjga wrote:

If you need a copy of last year’s accounts why can’t your new client provide them?

They have, as stated above there is only a single entry for debtors and a single entry for creditors within one year.

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Replying to legerman:
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By jwgrogan
01st Dec 2021 11:47

The CT600 accounts probably won't have any more detail. If the client hasn't got enough information (e.g. TB or nominal ledger) you'll need to go back to the previous agents and ask for all the detail you need.

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Replying to legerman:
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By Leywood
01st Dec 2021 11:52

Push back. They came to that total somehow, so they must be able to break it down. Or did they just pluck a figure out of the air? Do they not have statements from suppliers, for eg?

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Replying to legerman:
By johngroganjga
01st Dec 2021 11:53

So what is it you are expecting to find in the accounts sent to HMRC that is not in the accounts you already have?

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Replying to johngroganjga:
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By legerman
01st Dec 2021 14:14

johngroganjga wrote:

So what is it you are expecting to find in the accounts sent to HMRC that is not in the accounts you already have?

Sorry, I'm not thinking straight, it'll be exactly the same.

I'm kicking myself for not asking for the breakdown at the time.

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Replying to legerman:
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By Southwestbeancounter
01st Dec 2021 15:50

I'm kicking myself for not asking for the breakdown at the time.

[/quote]

Legerman, I might be oversimplifying things but unless the previous accountant was a sole trader who's passed away, or a firm which has ceased trading, why can't you simply email them, explained that you've only recently started the preparation of the accounts and so you hadn't realised you'd need to contact them further till now but could they please email you across a full breakdown of the debtors and creditors figures per the balance sheet as you are having issues tying them up.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained........ and it's hardly a big 'ask' is it?

I'd happily respond to that request from a new agent if I'd not already given them the relevant information previously.

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By Paul Crowley
01st Dec 2021 12:11

Waste of time
They will have nothing extra
Needs to come from client or prior accountant
Be prepared for a work of fiction
"Estimated" creditor to keep the tax low or
"Estimated" Debtor to fix the dividends/DLA or to get a loan or mortgage

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By legerman
01st Dec 2021 14:34

Paul Crowley wrote:

Waste of time
They will have nothing extra
Needs to come from client or prior accountant
Be prepared for a work of fiction
"Estimated" creditor to keep the tax low or
"Estimated" Debtor to fix the dividends/DLA or to get a loan or mortgage

Thanks, yes just realised after John and JwGrogan's comment there won't be a breakdown on the CT600, given the client's copy of accounts is from the CT600. Derr (to myself)

Thanks everyone for the advice given

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Dec 2021 14:47

Paul Crowley wrote:

Be prepared for a work of fiction
"Estimated" creditor to keep the tax low or
"Estimated" Debtor to fix the dividends/DLA or to get a loan or mortgage

Bit harsh, Paul.

There's no suggeston of impropriety on the former accountant's behalf. They simply haven't provided information that they weren't asked for. I'd imagine we've all done that.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Dec 2021 16:31

One that I took over had the Directors loan (NO s455) hidden in debtors
Most recent co I am third accountant in 9 months
No 2 accountant resigned. having only tried to cope with wages and late filed subcontract
No 1 accountant definitely passed over fictions. No detailed figures at all and use of home at £4,200
No 2 accountant passed on all the no 1 accountant emails
No dividends but somehow expenses exactly balanced income

Way back in the 80's I worked for a partner that created fictional creditors that no person following could ever figure out without an own up

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By lionofludesch
01st Dec 2021 14:19

I usually asked for an opening TB or sufficient information to prepare one but on the several occasions when I didn't get a response, I found I could make a decent stab by picking out information from the accounting records.

The courtesies of handover have definitely gone downhill over the last twenty years.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By legerman
01st Dec 2021 14:45

lionofludesch wrote:

I usually asked for an opening TB or sufficient information to prepare one but on the several occasions when I didn't get a response, I found I could make a decent stab by picking out information from the accounting records.

The courtesies of handover have definitely gone downhill over the last twenty years.

Yes, I've included everything I can possibly think of gleaned from this years accounts. For instance I knew there was a bank loan and a DLA in credit, which fortunately they had included in an email accompanying the draft accounts. Agree with Paul, I'm going to need the client to get a breakdown or redo last years accounts.

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Replying to legerman:
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By lionofludesch
01st Dec 2021 14:55

legerman wrote:
Agree with Paul, I'm going to need the client to get a breakdown or redo last years accounts.

Redoing the accounts is a bit over the top. Reviewing the underlying records, maybe.

Depends how far you're out, obviously, though, when you're down to the nitty-gritty of prepayments and accruals, you're never going to guess exactly the same estimates as your predecessors.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Dec 2021 16:33

+1
Always ask
but do not always get anything useful, that I could not otherwise get from client

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By Michael Beaver
01st Dec 2021 16:27

You could also take a pragmatic approach. If you can verify the correct balances that the client agrees at the end of the year that you are preparing , you can write off everything else. If you are writing off debtors that should have been collected, then it's likely you will have written them off anyway for being old and now uncollectible. If there is a balance left in creditors and they aren't chasing, chances they aren't there anymore or were duplicated in the first place.

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Replying to michaelbeaver:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Dec 2021 16:34

That is often the approach I take
And I would defend it on a challenge

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Replying to michaelbeaver:
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By legerman
02nd Dec 2021 00:03

michaelbeaver wrote:

You could also take a pragmatic approach. If you can verify the correct balances that the client agrees at the end of the year that you are preparing , you can write off everything else. If you are writing off debtors that should have been collected, then it's likely you will have written them off anyway for being old and now uncollectible. If there is a balance left in creditors and they aren't chasing, chances they aren't there anymore or were duplicated in the first place.

Good suggestion, and it did cross my mind . I'll try the old accountants first though, as Sothwestbeancounter suggested upthread.

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By jonharris999
03rd Dec 2021 16:41

I noticed this thread with interest on Wednesday and made a mental note to reply whenever HMRC replied to the request for a CT600 copy I happen to have made last week.

Impressively, their letter arrived today (Friday), just a little over a week after my call.

Their letter proudly notes that the CT600 is "enclosed".

Rather less impressively, the letter is the only item in the envelope.

It's better than no reply at all. I think.

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Replying to jonharris999:
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By Leywood
03rd Dec 2021 17:08

HMRC - a class act!

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By Carol Jefferis
05th Dec 2021 19:59

I appreciate I am very old and trained in a previous millennium but I am surprised by the extent to which clients no longer seem to retain anything one might describe as 'books of account'. Such books (or their digital incarnations) should really provide a clue as to the contents of the annual accounts surely? Especially as this is a limited company - companies acts requirements on record keeping still apply don't they?

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