Gift aid for small school PTA charity

Can the school PTA claim gift aid? and if so can it be backdated?

Didn't find your answer?

Hello,

Would any of you knowledgable people be kind enought to advise me if our school PTA can claim for gift aid?

We are a school of 400 pupils and currently raise about £10-15,000 per year through various sponsored events, pyjama days and the christmas and summer fairs. If we could claim gift aid on any of this then it would obviously make a huge difference to the funds coming in.

Can anyone help me work this out?

Thanks

Replies (27)

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By Accountant A
12th Oct 2018 21:31

MET128 wrote:

Can anyone help me work this out?

Is the PTA genuinely a charity, as in recognised and regulated as such?

If you spend some time on Google (clue: search "HMRC Gift Aid"), you'll find all manner of useful information.

Are none of the parents able to help?

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Replying to Accountant A:
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By MET128
12th Oct 2018 21:39

Yes it is a registered charity.

I've been looking but i'm a little confused by the statements. for example these two sentences in one paragraph, one seems to suggest no and one yes!

Donations made to an appeal or for a specific charitable purpose of the school, may be eligible for Gift Aid. Donations must not be linked to the provision of any benefit to a student related to a donor.

Donations given for non-uniform days, sponsored events, building appeals and equipment appeals will usually qualify for Gift Aid.

I was hoping that there would be people on here who deal with these things at a much higher level and would quickly know the answer and help me so I can spend time concentrating on raising money! Think of it as a charitable donation!

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Replying to MET128:
RLI
By lionofludesch
13th Oct 2018 10:38

They both say yes to me.

You can claim Gift Aid. It's a bit more tricky where people give you goods rather than cash and can be a lot of work for little reward but it can be done.

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
RLI
By lionofludesch
13th Oct 2018 10:40

These people are helpful.

http://smallcharityfinance.org.uk/

Thanks (1)
Replying to MET128:
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By Accountant A
13th Oct 2018 14:30

MET128 wrote:

I was hoping that there would be people on here who deal with these things at a much higher level and would quickly know the answer and help me so I can spend time concentrating on raising money!

The point is that someone within the PTA charity needs to understand the Gift Aid system and process sufficiently to satisfy themselves that any claims that are made are valid. It's not a Yes or No type of question.

If the organisation wants the money, it has to put the effort in to learn what's involved, keep proper records and make supportable claims.

In a school of 400 children, you might hope there was at least one of the 800 parents who was able to assist with this.

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Replying to Accountant A:
RLI
By lionofludesch
13th Oct 2018 14:56

Accountant A wrote:

In a school of 400 children, you might hope there was at least one of the 800 parents who was able to assist with this.

Some kids could have the same parents.

Thanks (2)
Replying to lionofludesch:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
13th Oct 2018 16:45

lionofludesch wrote:

Accountant A wrote:

In a school of 400 children, you might hope there was at least one of the 800 parents who was able to assist with this.

Some kids could have the same parents.

Some kids may have 4 parents.

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
RLI
By lionofludesch
13th Oct 2018 16:53

Not sure that's biologically possible.

Stick to accountancy.

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
Scalloway Castle
By scalloway
14th Oct 2018 13:37

atleastisoundknowledgable... wrote:

lionofludesch wrote:

Accountant A wrote:

Some kids could have the same parents.

Some kids may have 4 parents.

A colleague of mine once was at a parents evening at her child's school where one poor child turned up with Mum, Dad, Step Mum and Step Dad.

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Replying to scalloway:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
15th Oct 2018 07:02

So that makes, what - a child with 4 parents?

Lion ...

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
15th Oct 2018 13:26

No that makes a child with 2 parents. And 2 step-parents.

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
RLI
By lionofludesch
15th Oct 2018 15:09

Step parents deal with tax for trusts and estates, don't they ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
15th Oct 2018 15:27

You're talking about STEP as opposed to SETP, which is worth a Google.

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Replying to Portia Nina Levin:
RLI
By lionofludesch
15th Oct 2018 15:38

Dyslexia rules, KO.

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Replying to Accountant A:
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By MET128
14th Oct 2018 23:58

In a school of 400 children, you might hope there was at least one of the 800 parents who was able to assist with this.

[/quote]

Such a privileged point of view! This requires a parent in less than 200 families (yes some lucky parents have 3 or even 4 or more children) to be a qualified accountant with an in depth knowledge of charity accounts and gift aid!

No.

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Replying to MET128:
RLI
By lionofludesch
15th Oct 2018 08:53

MET128 wrote:
<

Such a privileged point of view! This requires a parent in less than 200 families (yes some lucky parents have 3 or even 4 or more children) to be a qualified accountant with an in depth knowledge of charity accounts and gift aid!

No.

You don't need to be a qualified accountant.

You just need to read the Gift Aid rules.

Thanks (0)
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By Matrix
13th Oct 2018 15:26

I offered to do this for my kids' school but none of the committee would sign the gift aid registration. PTAs generally raise a minority of their money through sponsorship so the amounts are not huge and the parents would need to sign the gift aid declaration for the sponsor money, which we collected for years. You can go back 5 years.

I still have the forms in my loft.

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Replying to Matrix:
ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
13th Oct 2018 16:47

Well that’s a poor show.
Why wouldn’t they sign it?

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
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By Matrix
14th Oct 2018 09:26

They are personally responsible, they have to provide their NI number and date of birth. It would have been a lot of work for a few hundred pounds (even though I offered to do it for free) and the PTA committee changes every few years and it is all voluntary and hard enough to get anyone to sit on the committee. If the amounts involved were bigger then maybe I would have pushed it.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By MET128
15th Oct 2018 00:08

Matrix if you’ve been through this before any help you could give would be amazing.

Thanks (0)
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By MET128
15th Oct 2018 00:49

So perhaps I should give a little more detail.

My child is 4 and has just started school in reception.

I went to the first PTA meeting full of enthusiasm hoping to give my time and get involved in raising funds for the school to buy things which sadly the schools can no longer afford.
Things such as new playground equipment, funding music lessons and drama props, new books for the library and a set of iPads (apparently computer rooms are so last decade☺️).

I was shocked to find only 2 people turned up and the PTA was about to collapse. So us two volunteered to take up the roles of treasurer and secretary in the PTA.

I’m a bookkeeper. I was training to be a chartered accountant (self funded evenings after work and weekend lessons).

I’d would have loved to continue my ACCA studies but if I dud then I would have had to put my child in full time child care and have some one else give them breakfast and pick them up in the evenings. The hours I worked I’d have been lucky to see my child at all!

So at 4 months pregnant I set myself up as a self employed bookkeeper. I worked throughout my pregnancy and even in the hospital. No paid maternity here! I did my clients books while the baby slept.

So now my child is 4 and has just started school. I work as a bookkeeper during school time between 9:30 and 2:30 and then from home after kids bedtime to ooooh midnight if I’m lucky.

Yes I can spend hours and hours researching charity accounts and gift aid. Yes I can understand it. But I was just hoping that out of all the people on here who already know this stuff someone might be decent enough to share their knowledge and save me a bit of time so that I can spend that time on raising money for the kids at the school. I’m not after a freebie. I just want to help raise money for the kids at the school.

If anyone would be decent enough to help I’d appreciate it.

Thanks (0)
Replying to MET128:
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By Matrix
15th Oct 2018 06:09

Per above I never did apply as no one would act as the official on the form. We collected all the gift aid declarations on the sponsor forms but the amounts involved were tiny, you would only be able to reclaim a few hundred pounds a year and it would be a lot of work (our total was £10k per year, approx £1k from sponsorship).

You can only reclaim on sponsorship money, no other events.

I would do some research on the PTA site, an easy way to make money was to set up easy fundraising so that every time a parent buys something from Amazon, John Lewis etc, the school gets a cut.

Thanks (0)
Replying to MET128:
RLI
By lionofludesch
15th Oct 2018 08:49

MET128 wrote:

So perhaps I should give a little more detail.

My child is 4 and has just started school in reception.

I went to the first PTA meeting full of enthusiasm hoping to give my time and get involved in raising funds for the school to buy things which sadly the schools can no longer afford.
Things such as new playground equipment, funding music lessons and drama props, new books for the library and a set of iPads (apparently computer rooms are so last decade☺️).

I was shocked to find only 2 people turned up and the PTA was about to collapse. So us two volunteered to take up the roles of treasurer and secretary in the PTA.

I’m a bookkeeper. I was training to be a chartered accountant (self funded evenings after work and weekend lessons).

I’d would have loved to continue my ACCA studies but if I dud then I would have had to put my child in full time child care and have some one else give them breakfast and pick them up in the evenings. The hours I worked I’d have been lucky to see my child at all!

So at 4 months pregnant I set myself up as a self employed bookkeeper. I worked throughout my pregnancy and even in the hospital. No paid maternity here! I did my clients books while the baby slept.

So now my child is 4 and has just started school. I work as a bookkeeper during school time between 9:30 and 2:30 and then from home after kids bedtime to ooooh midnight if I’m lucky.

Yes I can spend hours and hours researching charity accounts and gift aid. Yes I can understand it. But I was just hoping that out of all the people on here who already know this stuff someone might be decent enough to share their knowledge and save me a bit of time so that I can spend that time on raising money for the kids at the school. I’m not after a freebie. I just want to help raise money for the kids at the school.

If anyone would be decent enough to help I’d appreciate it.

All that's nice but the fact remains that the person filling in the forms and operating the Gift Aid scheme needs to understand the rules. It's not a question of being unhelpful. One has to learn one's own skills.

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the sea otter
By memyself-eye
15th Oct 2018 09:58

You will find that a non-accountant PTA volunteer faced with putting his/her signature on any form with 'HMRC' on the top of it will recoil in horror....

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Replying to memyself-eye:
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By Portia Nina Levin
15th Oct 2018 13:29

memyself-eye wrote:

recoil in horror

Oasis lyrics?

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By bendybod
23rd Oct 2018 11:58

There are a couple of things to consider:
There is no obligation to request NI numbers or dates of birth for Gift Aid - name, house number and post code are generally sufficient and are all that you can reasonably request on things like sponsorship forms due to Data Protection.
You can only claim on donations, not on sales of items at fairs.
The paragraph that you refer to regarding a student related to the donor I would take to mean that if they were fundraising for something specific but if you are just raising money for the PTA in general then it would be fine as the benefit to the individual pupil would not be quantifiable and is likely to be insignificant.
You may be able to use the Small Donations Scheme for money that is given, say in buckets or collection tins, at a fair, etc, without needing the details of individual donors.
You really do need someone who can look at every donation and every situation and be very certain about whether Gift Aid can be claimed or not though - and someone who is prepared to do the work to submit the returns.

Thanks (0)
paddle steamer
By DJKL
23rd Oct 2018 12:36

Are there any "Umbrella" entities which the PTA can join which might give ready access to technical input?

Whilst the PTA type entities may not have such bodies when I was involved with a charitable After School Club we belonged to a couple of such beasts that were very useful sources of data common to players within their sphere of interest.

Another good starting point for info might be via the local churches as they may have people experienced with Gift Aid

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