Going crazy - Year end accounts

Needing advice on balancing year end accounts please

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I'm preparing the year end accounts for a small charity. I'm quite happy that the figures I have are correct for all the in-year transactions. We started using Sage Cloud part way through the year so I've run manual & Sage accounts for the FY to check everything agrees.

I've reconciled each individual account manually (opening balance + income + transfers in - expenditure - transfers out = closing balance).

I've produced an extended trial balance for year end adjustments and a manual balance sheet & I&E account, which all agree with the manual records & sage.

I've checked the opening balances for the year agree with last years closing balances.

I thought the total balance of funds of the charity on the balance sheet at the end of this FY should be the balance of last FY retained expenses + this years retained income, but it isn't. Any ideas where the difference might be please? I only do accounts for 1 charity once a year & it's driving me mad! Many thanks. Tracey

Replies (27)

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By WhichTyler
17th Aug 2018 10:42

Does your closing TB balance?

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Replying to WhichTyler:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 10:48

Yes absolutely everything seems to balance.

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Replying to Tracey_Clarkson:
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By WhichTyler
17th Aug 2018 11:41

hard to understand the problem then (without seeing it), but if the TB balances but the accounts don't, then don't you just need to tick the BS accounts in the TB to the BS in the accounts and P&L and funds> funds?

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ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
17th Aug 2018 11:10

Has anything been posted in the reserves nominal by accident?

Has anything been posted with a prior year date?

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 11:24

No to both. I'm getting the same problem with the manual accounts too.

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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 11:13

The current year's extended trial balance will have a line for charity funds brought forward from last year (or something similar)?

This should equal last year's charity funds

If it doesn't you need to check Sage and/or your adjustments until it does.

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Replying to Pygmy:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 11:32

I'm not sure it's anything to do with sage as I've done the accounts manually too. Think it's more something very obvious that I'm missing. A case of can't see the wood for the trees lol.

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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 11:39

Are your c/f charity funds from last year equal to your b/f funds in this year's accounts?

If they are you need to investigate why the profit in this year's extended TB isn't what you think it should be

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Replying to Pygmy:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 11:44

Yes my b/f balances agree.
As my in-year TB & individual account reconciliations also agree I think I'm loosing the plot.

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By GW
17th Aug 2018 11:50

Is there a problem with the Chart of accounts so something on the TB is not ending up where you expect it to be in the accounts?

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Replying to GW:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 11:56

No I don't think it's the COA as the manual accounts are wrong too, more a problem with my internal hard-drive lol.

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
17th Aug 2018 11:52

No direct help re your issue, but the best approach I have ever had re these sorts of issues is put it aside, go and do some other work for a few hours, pick it back up later and revisit- the human brain appears to become reinforcing re seeing what it wants to see not what is there, breaking the historic checking from the current checking often unlocks the issue in a Eureka moment (without the bath)

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 11:57

Have been doing that daily for the last week lol.

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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 11:56

I would suggest checking exactly what makes up charity funds as atleastisoundknowledgable suggested 45 mins ago (It should only be made up of last year's funds plus this year's profit for the purpose of your check)

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Replying to Pygmy:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 11:59

Which should equal the balances of all the individual charity accounts retained?

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Replying to Tracey_Clarkson:
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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 12:09

Yes. Have you got all the accounts correctly set up as either P&L or Balance Sheets accounts?

Are the balances of the individual accounts which comprise your retained funds calculation correct in the TB?

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Replying to Pygmy:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 12:15

I'm not 100% on the Sage set-up but think it's ok, as it agrees to what I've done manually.

Yes, balances of individual accounts agree to this years retained funds. Last years retained figure was very small & only came from a few transactions so pretty sure that is correct too.

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Replying to Tracey_Clarkson:
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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 12:19

I take it you have produced a Balance Sheet from your extended trial balance?

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Replying to Pygmy:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 12:24

Yes B/S seems ok

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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 12:22

If you have a balance sheet have a look why the assets and liabilities of the business which are clearly set out differ from what you think they should be?

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Replying to Pygmy:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 12:25

They are exactly what I was expecting.

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Replying to Tracey_Clarkson:
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By Pygmy
17th Aug 2018 12:30

I think you must have lost the plot with your check calculation as everything seems to be in order from what you say.

Thank you for all the Thank yous - people will start mistaking me for a helpful member of the AWEB community

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By paulwakefield1
17th Aug 2018 13:01

I often find that problems with a charity's accounts revolve around fund accounting. But it sounds as if you have done everything right and treated the funds on an "overall basis". Are there any movements not done through Sage? e.g. have you got a one sided funds transfer?

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Replying to paulwakefield1:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
17th Aug 2018 13:11

I've reconciled all the internal transfers and debits equal credits.

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By thomas34
17th Aug 2018 19:40

Your last paragraph isn't strictly correct. You would need to allow for "prior year adjustments". Suggest you run a P & L Account for the date range "brought forward to brought forward". You can then discount this as a reason. You don't say whether you've closed off the year end yet.

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Replying to thomas34:
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By Tracey_Clarkson
18th Aug 2018 11:00

I haven't any prior year adjustments.

Sage Cloud seems to have no functionality to run a year end, other than locking down data entry to the FYE

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RLI
By lionofludesch
18th Aug 2018 17:01

Well, it must be summat .........

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