has anyone seen a worse webpage from a non-qual?

thought it might give some of you a giggle

Didn't find your answer?

This is genuinely what is on a competitors webpage. what do you guys think?

What do I want with a Chartered Accountant?

Chances are - you don't. 

There's a lot of ballyhoo put about to the effect that in order to keep HMRC at bay you need to engage a Chartered Accountant to look after your affairs.  Curiously, most if not all of this noise is made by Chartered Accountants themselves, the ones with most to gain from it.

What is a Chartered Accountant?

He (or she) left University with a completely irrelevant degree.  It might be in ancient Sanskrit, Hebrew mythology or the history of Derbyshire County Cricket Club.  Doesn't matter, all he has to do is demonstrate that he can pass exams.  A relevant degree is a big turn-off to big accountancy firms, the candidate has to unlearn all the nonsense they stuffed into him at University.  A bit like learning to drive, say, in Calcutta and expecting to be able to pass your test here.

His employers will put him through a three-year course, carefuly structured to give a restricted range of very straightforward and clinical experience whilst at the same time giving him six months off to study and take exams.

Many of these exams are in subjects totally irrelevant to you.  Trusts, international law, mergers and demergers - you get the idea.  Your newly-fledged Chartered Accountant has an exposure to the world you and I inhabit of approximately ZERO.  He's been studying for three years subjects of no importance whatever to you, and knows nothing about how to convert your records into credible accounts.

What can he do that we can't?  Well, he can sign off your limited company audit report.  Frankly if you're that big that you need an audit then you're probably either too big for us to handle or about to become too big.  Oh, and he can give you advice on investments and pensions, subjects that we want nothing to do with.

Apart from that?  Nothing!

So ask yourself - do you need a Chartered Accountant?   Chances are you don't, so do yourself a favour and don't fall for their sales pitch!

Replies (30)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Nov 2017 19:03

Interesting.

Because I can't sign audit reports either. Nor do I give advice on investments and pensions.

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By carnmores
23rd Nov 2017 20:22

you have to admire their confidence and marketing. its fair comment . i gave up my membership in 2008 after being an FCA for 30 years i had had enough

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paddle steamer
By DJKL
23rd Nov 2017 20:21

He/She should have tried to write it in verse, he/she may scorn first degrees in irrelevant subjects but frankly they do have their uses.

If I was a betting man I would judge the writer to be male, my degree again possibly proves its worth as I intuitively detect (probably incorrectly but rough 50:50 chance here)in the tone, intonation and style of writing, the hints of the large chip on either the right or maybe the left shoulder, or possibly even both, in fact certainly both, as all good masters of double entry appreciate that one cannot possibly have an unbalanced journal, merely an unbalanced bean counter.

And just to be clear, no axe to grind here, I alas am also not bestowed with Chartered status.

A bit more humour and rhyme and it might work, as written, merely a whine.

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By scrasey
23rd Nov 2017 20:38

the about us bit was even better. something along the lines of "we don't waste our time doing unneccessary CPD, or have PI insurance that isn't needed. oh dear! gotta laugh.

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By Ruddles
23rd Nov 2017 20:52

I’ve had a look at their website and ‘competitor’ is not the term that immediately springs to mind. We prefer not to go after the low-hanging fruit so firms like this are welcome to it.

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By andy.partridge
23rd Nov 2017 21:26

I'm struggling to find anything I strongly disagree with.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Nov 2017 07:54

Well, I don't have a degree of any sort, let alone Sanskrit. Most of the exams I took were relevant - and still are - and I can't sign audit reports or give investment advice.

Having said that, the ICAEW definitely lost touch with the small business thirty years ago. About the same time as they began to produce irrelevant standards.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
By Ruddles
24th Nov 2017 08:10

Technically, neither can I. However, whther qualified or not one would hope that someone purporting to offer a quality service would also be professional in their approach - I consider that blurb to be anything but. Yes, I'm ACA and yes, I'm ATII (sic). But I didn't do a relevant degree and whilst I accept that the letters don't in themselves prove anything, I'd like to think that the training that I did (most of which, BTW, I consider to be highly relevant to the services that I provide) taught me how to be professional (my behaviour on this site excepted of course).

If the OP's target audience is taxpayers with straightforward affairs and requiring compliance-only services, fair enough. I prefer to deal with clients that require something more and who present more of a technical challenge. That's why I trained - so that I could offer advice to those that needed it. And that is why I don't see the OP as any sort of 'competitor'.

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By Accountant A
23rd Nov 2017 21:48

One of the partners claims to have trained with Arthur Andersen and the other with another, presumably local, firm.

It's complete nonsense anyway to conflate someone's training background with their experience. You could make the same cheap shot about any newly qualified in any profession. They aren't the ones whose services you are ultimately buying.

Basically they are a bunch of unprofessional t0ssers.

EDIT: Just seen the partnership's Twitter account (last updated March 2016). The partner shown looks more like a 1970's football hooligan than a professional adviser.

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Intercity
By Mr Hankey
23rd Nov 2017 22:15

I agree with Andy, I don't strongly disagree with anything in the text!

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Replying to Manchester_man:
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By CSanton89
24th Nov 2017 10:07

I would say Abc accounting services are the originals as they are near Derby (with the reference to Derby Cricket ground)

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By Manchester_man
24th Nov 2017 08:20

Send like a charming guy.

"To the 9 delinquents who left their SA return to the absolute last minute, despite me pestering them all month, remember, I know where you live".

From the firm's Facebook page

https://m.facebook.com/lhpaccountants

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By mrme89
24th Nov 2017 08:50

Most of it is what the chartered accountants on Aweb have been saying for years when they've considered resigning their membership.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
24th Nov 2017 09:24

One assumes he did a relevant degree but didn't get a training contract with a big firm.

Then joined a small firm, stuffed all the exams and has a chip the size of the great london on his shoulder about it.

I have met several people like that, most odd. I have the cert, but I dont think its a big deal. Its just some ruddy hard exams I did years ago.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
24th Nov 2017 09:28

This page I loved

http://lhpaccountants.co.uk/index.php?page=unique-service

Yup they will be your company director, if "- for political reasons it just isn't practical or sensible for you to appear as a company director."

Glad they are not CA's.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By Mr_awol
24th Nov 2017 10:36

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

This page I loved

http://lhpaccountants.co.uk/index.php?page=unique-service

Yup they will be your company director, if "- for political reasons it just isn't practical or sensible for you to appear as a company director."

Glad they are not CA's.

I liked that bit. Also:

- "you think that you may be about to go bankrupt. If we form a limited company (with one of us a director, see "a unique service?" elsewhere on this site) and buy the business off you if appropriate, then the Offical Receiver won't touch it. The company employs you so you can keep involved with the business and, when you're financially clean again, we'll hand it back to you."
- "We're not Chartered Accountants. So we're not bound by a code of conduct that's inappropriate for both you and us."
- "We don't pay for PI insurance we don't need. We don't undertake Continuing Professional Development just for the sake of it"

Having recently posted a cheque to the ICAEW extortion racket, I can have a smile to myself at some of the points, and can see how a certain sort of client would like it, but satire aside, it's complete b*llocks from start to finish and they come across as something of an example as to why ther term 'accountant' should preferably be regulated properly.

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Replying to Mr_awol:
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By andy.partridge
24th Nov 2017 10:45

'Chartered Accountant' is regulated.

All institutes have only half-heartedly promoted the advantages of using a qualified accountant and the government lost interest in our cause long ago.

In a world of grey accountancy websites I thought the one I saw added colour and humour. Only a precious soul would be offended by the slapstick.

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Replying to andy.partridge:
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By Mr_awol
24th Nov 2017 13:50

It's a protected term, but that is not the same as regulating a sector.

People can still call themselves accountants without the first idea what they are doing (admittedly I've met a few FCAs who fall into that category).

The website isn't offensive - as I said, I can have a wry smile about how they 'have a point' but, deep down, i know I'm being facetious and the website is actually full of cringeworthy claptrap.

The good news is that I've identified an opportunity to work on weekends as a gas fitter though. I can lift most of the material from these cowboys' website (who needs any of that unnecessary Corgi nonsense, and if a landlord wants a safety certificate but doesn't want the boiler tested for 'political reasons' I'm his man).

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Replying to Mr_awol:
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By andy.partridge
24th Nov 2017 14:52

Mr_awol wrote:

It's a protected term, but that is not the same as regulating a sector.

People can still call themselves accountants without the first idea what they are doing (admittedly I've met a few FCAs who fall into that category).

.

The market isn't interested, the profession pays lip service only and the government is against it. It's done. Finished. No point in expending any energy over it.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
24th Nov 2017 13:04

Be keen to see who goes on as the PSC for these companies they are shadow directors for to hide the bankruptcy or shady past of the actual owners.

I thought incorrect filing of a duff PSC was punishable by £5000 fine or imprisonment, but the rules must only apply if you can be bothered to follow them.

I assume these are registered with HMRC for AML or is that just other red tape that you do not need.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Nov 2017 13:11

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

This page I loved

http://lhpaccountants.co.uk/index.php?page=unique-service

Yup they will be your company director, if "- for political reasons it just isn't practical or sensible for you to appear as a company director."

Glad they are not CA's.

I wonder why no other accountant offers the service.

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
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By legerman
24th Nov 2017 14:47

ireallyshouldknowthisbut wrote:

This page I loved

http://lhpaccountants.co.uk/index.php?page=unique-service

Yup they will be your company director, if "- for political reasons it just isn't practical or sensible for you to appear as a company director."

Glad they are not CA's.

Or the one above about them covering the director side if you're about to go bankrupt. Ahem, isn't that encouraging them to be a shadow director?

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By justsotax
24th Nov 2017 11:06

its difficult to argue with much of it....I am sure the bit about the degree applies to many professions. At least he has targeted his audience....and isn't simply going to accept everyone who comes through the door...

Its better than some bland website saying they are specialists in....erm....everything....

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Replying to justsotax:
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By Mr_awol
24th Nov 2017 16:26

justsotax wrote:

its difficult to argue with much of it....

But IS it difficult to argue with much of it?

That's the point I was making above. I can have a laugh at it as a satirical analysis of how a firm 'should' be run (act for the client, not HMRC, don't charge for all the oak panelling and days spent on irrelevant CPD or worthless PI when the firm has been claim free for x years).

But once you put your sensible hat on, you realise that it's a bit of low brow entertainment on a Friday afternoon without much substance

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
24th Nov 2017 16:11

Joking aside and as touched on by a few others, a lot of the points they make are how many members of the public feel.

I did not keep up my CIMA membership (I do sometimes regret this) and have a PC from a lessor body. I recently took on a client from a local long established Chartered firm.

When the firm found out he was moving to me, they went down the line of saying why are you going there, they are just a small firm and not chartered, instead of considering what they were doing wrong and why the client wished to leave.

The guy has invented a product alongside his main business and wants to bring it to market, as i have 13 years FD experience i can help him do that whereas the 70 year old firm could not as they provide a compliance only service on a once a year basis.

The guy replied to the "Chartered accountant" and said I am going to that lad as he knows more about my business after a 3o minute meeting than you do after looking after me for 10 years.

Whilst I do not wish to fire up the the whole Chartered V the rest debate, whilst these guys are clearly cowboys, if they had an adult advising them to tone things down they are probably pitching themselves to what the market wants, accounts done quickly and cheaply without the need to "doth your cap" to the chartered accountant who has been qualified for 40 years but who is actually not really that in touch with the sharp end.

The firm that did the name calling towards me, have so many non chartered partners that they cannot call themselves chartered accountants, a fact they failed to pass onto their now ex client who has passed my details onto the other 10 clients he recommended to them over the years.

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By Montrose
24th Nov 2017 14:58

Sour grapes. The individuals concerned failed to qualify, but they don't acknowledge or admit that!

Mr A. did his early training[?] with Arthur Andersen and Co, one the world's leading accountancy firms.
and

Mr.B) did his training[?] with Brown, Peet and Tilly in London before moving to Bristol and going into industry for 20 years.

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By pembo
24th Nov 2017 15:20

Having worn that teeshirt 40 years ago no argument from me re newly qualified especially from the big boys who often know how do an audit blindfold but little else. What they fail to mention is why should anyone go to them rather than an ACA/ACCA or whatever (lets not go there). Are they guaranteeing their fees are 50%lower or just hoping that's the inference ? What's their "USP" (ugh) other than slagging people off ? Does the fact that they were presumably rubbish at exams give them a distinct advantage ? What does their client do when they mess up ? Complain to a non existent regulator ? HMRC maybe ?

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Replying to pembo:
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By andy.partridge
24th Nov 2017 15:32

If the institute that purports to represent you isn't really bothered how does anyone expect the general public to care?

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By Manchester_man
26th Nov 2017 21:04

I can't believe they actually say the following on their website
"We don't pay for PI insurance we don't need".

Maybe it's more a case of they can't find anyone who will insure them, particularly in light of the "we will act as director of your company".

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