Share this content
99

Have you read the consultation document?

Have you read the consultation document?

Didn't find your answer?

For those that don't know me, my background/specialism is as an accountant working with micro clients. I even developed a software package to help accountants make more money from these types of clients.

Having read the consultation document on simpler tax for the simplest small businesses I wonder if accountants will have any sole-trader/small partnership clients in 5-10 years.

It seems there is intent to enable micro clients to trade without the cost of an accountant. If low salary/dividend profit extraction from Ltd Cos is closed (which I personally think will happen) then more businesses will fall into cash accounting.

My understanding is that there are circa 4.5 million businesses in the UK and 3.5 are individuals. According to the consultation document, 3 million turn over less that £77,000* (the limit for cash accounting).

*The limit is set to rise to £150,000.

It has been suggested that low cost accountancy firms are going to target this market but I think software companies will. If I am right and you removed sole-traders and micro Ltd Co (less than £150,000 turnover) from your portfolio how much revenue would you lose as a percentage of GRF?

Bob Harper

Replies (99)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

By George Attazder
26th Jun 2012 13:02

Bob, have you read the consultation document...

The £150,000 limit's already in there. You can go into the scheme if you're turnover's under £77K and aren't obliged to leave while your turnover remains under £150K.

But there are all sorts of practical reasons for businesses in this range not to use it, if they receive advice.  Those that want to "do it on the cheap" are already best left to do do so.

It's always been the fate of the compliance monkey that they will ultimately be replaced by an automated solution.

I'm not sure what your point is though, as you're usually trying to sell something?

Thanks (2)
avatar
By BigBadWolf
26th Jun 2012 13:06

really?

"For those that don't know me, my background/specialism is as an accountant working with micro clients. I even developed a software package to help accountants make more money from these types of clients."

 

I thought your background/specialism was in Marketing & telling everyone they were doing things wrong?

Thanks (5)
By ShirleyM
26th Jun 2012 13:10

Who really knows?

Who really knows what the future holds?

The promised tax simplification may happen, or it may not. I doubt it will ever be simplified to the extent that the majority of taxpayers are confident enough to prepare their own returns.

The cash accounting scheme will not suit everyone, and there will always be taxpayers who care little about accuracy and will pay unnecessary tax rather than appointing an accountant, even though they would see savings overall.

I guess the greatest risk will be with the accountants who basically provide a form-filling service, but even then there will always be clients who know what to do and how to do it, but either can't be bothered, or can use their own time to better purpose.

Can the low-cost accountancy firms, and the software companies provide the true personal face-to-face services that most small practices provide? I doubt it.

In any case, it is said that the majority of sole practitioners are aged 50+. Natural wastage may reduce the competition.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By cparker87
26th Jun 2012 13:11

.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

I could have a go at doing my own roof.. It might be good for a while, but I when tested it would fail and I'll be left soggy and wet wishing that I had just paid an experienced roofer.

Same principle I guess. I'm just starting out and am not overly concerned that this will affect client uptake. As George says, they're probably the ones best avoided in any case.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Old Greying Accountant
26th Jun 2012 13:13

Here we go ...

... 2, 3, 4!

Thanks (1)
avatar
By david5541
26th Jun 2012 13:43

whos confused ? and alarmed?

"My understanding is that there are circa 4.5 million businesses in the UK and 3.5 are individuals. According to the consultation document, 3 million turn over less that £77,000* (the limit for cash accounting).

*The limit is set to rise to £150,000.

It has been suggested that low cost accountancy firms are going to target this market but I think software companies will. If I am right and you removed sole-traders and micro Ltd Co (less than £150,000 turnover) from your portfolio how much revenue would you lose as a percentage of GRF?"

It seems bob harper has been confused by the polyphony of limits that exist  in vat legislation  - which isnt surprising since he isnt an accountant dealing with small businesses."

 

anyone who is an accountant will know there are currently differnt thresholds for vat deregistration/registration and:;

vat

a)cash acounting

b)annual accounting

the audit limit(in terms of either

a)turnover 

b)employee numbers or

c)balance sheet value

My feedback on this proposal is:

1stly not to confuse it with any of the vat registration limits/threshold/cash accounting limit/threshold

2ndly make sure it is lower.

the final solution may easily be that it will be the vat registration threshold which will open up a huge scope for more tax avoidance or ignorance of the actual thresholds and give hmrc a good excuse for closing all its local compliance/s a enquiry offices.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By DMGbus
26th Jun 2012 13:44

Adapt and survive

If the new cash accounting proposals become reality they will be OPTIONAL as I understand it.

As soon as something becomes OPTIONAL (like flat rate VAT) (like FPCS mileage rates car claim or actual costs claim) a question arises as to "which method gives the lowest tax payable?".   I think every small (micro) business should be asking this question. 

So, there should be a market out there for advisors who are capable of advising which option gives a better tax result.    Some accountants will use customised spreadsheets to cost-effectively and easily prepare accounts / tax comps on both bases so as to be able to advise clients effectively.   I would hope that this might be a USP for those accountants.  Others will see it all as a big burden and not cost effective to advise on because either they don't believe in choice, understand the new system or or use software from software providors that won't do the job required or will be costly to have any added necessary option.

 

 

Thanks (1)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 14:17

No answers just arguments

There are no answers here, just arguments and an unwillingness to accept that significant change is happening.

@George - thanks about the £150,000 limit.I'm trying to sell the idea that accountants need to seriously consider their strategy because the world is changing fast and they aren't.

@BigBadWolf - my background is an accountant. What I do now is tell people who don't agree with me that they are wrong, otherwise I would agree with them.

@Shirley - correct, I do not know what the future is. What I do know is that is will not be the same as the past. Agreed? For example, my hair on my wisdom patch will not grow back and we will not be lodging appeals against estimated assessments and postponing tax payments in the future.

The past was a very complex tax system that needed professional guidance. I think it is reasonable to suggest with the developments like Self Assessment, Online filing and Simplification that less professional guidance will be needed at the micro end of the market.

I could be wrong but I could also be right but my question is what happens if I am right?

What happens if most people choose to represent themselves over the next 5-10 years? Let's say that the option is removed and simplification extends to compulsory cash accounting?

Bob Harper

Thanks (0)
avatar
By andy.partridge
26th Jun 2012 14:28

Clients don't know what they don't know and will continue to rely on accountants for compliance. Simplified schemes often end up far more complicated than intended. For example, VAT FRS - designed to be idiot-proof but I still have clients who would prefer me to look after it for them.

The small practice just need to remain vigilant and flexible, not get panicked into somersaulting strategies.

I wonder how the franchises are going to react. They seem more vulnerable to me.

 

Thanks (1)
By ShirleyM
26th Jun 2012 14:33

@Bob

I could be wrong but I could also be right but my question is what happens if I am right? 

What happens if you are wrong?

What happens if most people choose to represent themselves over the next 5-10 years? 

It won't happen, but in any case, we have acquired many long-term clients who initially came to us for one year only. They did their own tax returns, but needed additional help because they had CGT, or some other complexity they were not confident about. Almost all of these clients have become long-term clients who return year after year, even though there are no further complexities.

Why do you think this happens?

Thanks (0)
By ChrisScullard
26th Jun 2012 14:52

I think Bob makes a valid point in that this is something we all need to be aware of and plan for.

That said, of my (albeit very small) client base the sole traders who could use cash accounting will still almost certainly pay to use an accountant.  As a profession I think we underestimate the number of people who are scared of numbers and, frankly, bone idle when it comes to adminsitrative tasks (like filing a tax return - evidenced by the number that get filed on 31 Jan!!)

I can only talk about my own clients, but I doubt I'd lose any of them simply because they pay primarily for the peace of mind that their accounts and tax returns have been done by a professional accountant.  Once you throw in a few other value added things, like checking availability of tax credits, monitoring where their turnover is in relation to the VAT threshold, reviewing the costs/benefits of incorporation (all things I do as a matter of course when preparing the accounts) then clients will tend to stay. 

Basically as many above have expressed, it's about adapting and making smaller clients feel comfortable parting with their hard earned to pay an accountant.  To do that might mean we have to do more than form filling and confusing them with talk of accruals, stock adjustments and accounting waffle.

Like any change on the horizon, it can be a risk or an opportunity.  Those that can spot the opportunity have nothing to fear.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By bigdave1971
26th Jun 2012 15:01

Not a major problem

I don't mean to be rude to anyone but most of my clients wouldn't know where to start in preparing their accounts, whether its cash accounting or otherwise.

Those who could do it don't have the time to look into it properly.

Also there are those who couldn't be bothered and are happy to hand their books over for someone else to sort out and to give them peace of mind.

Even the tax return form scares many people and filling in two or three boxes of the tax credit form makes some people nervous.

I am not burying my head in the sand to potential changes but I do think that the knowledge gained from exams and years of experience will still be worth something to most business owners.

Finally it wouldn't be the first time that the tax office offered a simpler system that ends up being more complicated.

 

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 15:27

Response

@Andy - I think the franchises that base their business model on compliance and micro clients will need to re-think the same as non-franchises. 

This is why I think there will be more competition for the work that requires professional support.

@Shirley - if you are not prepared to contemplate change then no need to reply. 

@Chris - you could be right but I think technology companies will target clients to explain how to save money. I met a sole-trader builder being charged £600 a year and he resents paying because he feels he does all the work as he does his bookkeeping. This is a classic situation that the new rules changes.

@BigDave - would you be happy to give your client list to a software company to target your clients?

Bob

Thanks (0)
Replying to Anthony G Thorne:
avatar
By bigdave1971
26th Jun 2012 15:36

.

Bob Harper wrote:

@BigDave - would you be happy to give your client list to a software company to target your clients?

Bob

No thank you.

 

Thanks (0)
Replying to Anthony G Thorne:
avatar
By andy.partridge
26th Jun 2012 16:10

Are you worried?

Bob Harper wrote:

@Andy - I think the franchises that base their business model on compliance and micro clients will need to re-think the same as non-franchises. 

Bob

So why not tell us what Crunchers are going to do about this terrible threat, or are you looking for ideas to help you? 

Thanks (1)
By JCresswellTax
26th Jun 2012 15:49

Welcome back Bobby

The site has been quiet without you.

I see you are still up against it though.

Can I ask why you think bigdave would want to give his client list to a software company?

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
26th Jun 2012 16:08

He's back!

Most of us on here are small practices. If our target markets or services offered have to change, we can do it very quickly. Bob's talking 5-10 years ahead. QED. G'night.

Thanks (1)
By ShirleyM
26th Jun 2012 16:01

@Bob

@Shirley - if you are not prepared to contemplate change then no need to reply.  

Not true!

... and no ... I am not going to tell you my plans for the future.

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 16:05

Need and wants

@Shirley - you can if you want and you have but you don't need to.

@JCresswellTax - because he said that the change is not a major problem. I was just testing how confident he is and he isn't very otherwise he would say no problem.

By the way, still no smile!

Bob

 

 

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 16:20

Crunchers

@RedLeader - over the next 5-10 years. How long do you think it will take an accountant to fundamentally change? My experience is 3-5 years.

@Andy - what are Crunchers doing? Well, we are moving from bookkeepers to accountants and positioning ourselves as Alternative Accountants.

Our strapline is that we help clients pay more tax by working with them to grow their profits. At the moment we are are developing tools and resources to enable us to deliver the results without charging a fortune.

Basically we want to charge the same as traditional accountants but offer more. Does that ring any bells, not that I saw this coming or anything.

Bob

Thanks (0)
Replying to SteveHa:
By fpurves
26th Jun 2012 22:55

Crunchers to moving from bookkeepers to AA?

Bob Harper wrote:

Well, we are moving from bookkeepers to accountants and positioning ourselves as Alternative Accountants.

Bob

@bob. Would that mean your would brand yourself as Bob Harper A.A?

Interesting marketing proposition - though may attract the wrong target audience? ( and I think the trade mark may already be registered)

Thanks (0)
avatar
By andy.partridge
26th Jun 2012 16:39

No need to thank me

You usually put a link at the foot of your posts. Just doing my bit to help you with your marketing.

Edit - apologies, P11D season puts me in a funny mood every year. If I had a cat I'd kick it instead

Thanks (2)
avatar
By bigdave1971
26th Jun 2012 16:39

Good luck Bob

Helping clients to grow profits truly is innovative.

Charging the same as traditional accountants really does undervalue the service you aim to give.

All the best.

 

Thanks (2)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 18:30

Value

@Andy - have you applied for dispensations for all your clients to avoid the work/save your client's money?

@BigDave - our price is the cost to the client. The value is what they perceive which will be a) what a traditional accountant charges plus b) the value of the additional input/profit.

The value of the additional profit is not the profit but what they do with it. This could be huge if it is enough to help fund the client's kids university costs or to help them to get on the housing ladder. It could be for some private medical cover, boosting savings as investment returns fall. This could be enough to enable clients to stay in their home in their retirement.

I assume you have completed financial reviews on all your clients to make sure they don't have any nasty surprises ahead? 

The innovative bit is "how" we do it which comes down to things like our knowledge and systems (which we are developing).

The objective is to give business owners a choice. An accountant focussed on P11Ds or one focussed on the client's financial wellbeing.

All the best to you.

Bob Harper

Accounting Franchise

 

Thanks (0)
Replying to dbowleracca:
avatar
By andy.partridge
26th Jun 2012 18:41

Have you fallen out of love with value pricing so soon?

Bob Harper wrote:

@Andy - have you applied for dispensations for all your clients to avoid the work/save your client's money?

The objective is to give business owners a choice. An accountant focussed on P11Ds or one focussed on the client's financial wellbeing.

Bob Harper

I have for those sufficiently interested in the subject and who are happy to pay me to do it for them. As for the rest it is my professional duty to look after them despite their apparent apathy. I am a martyr.

Thanks (1)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 19:38

What are you?

@Andy - yes, our pricing is based on value; keep in mind that the value of the traditional accountant is very low to start with. We need to build lots of value because we want to deliver give 5-10 times ROI.

"Sufficiently interested" is an interesting phrase. I wonder how much effort have you put into advising clients that they can save time/money every year with a simple a one-off application? 

Do you ask them every year? Do you have a fact sheet on what a Dispensation is? Do you have a Dispensation service that pays for itself?

"Professional duty" is another interesting phrase. It sounds a bit like an excuse to do/charge for something that shouldn't need to be done. A bit like my pet topic of poor quality bookkeeping. Most accountants justify fees because the books are poor but have not developed an effective solution to prevent the problem. Interesting that poor quality bookkeeping suits most accountants. Are you sure being busy with P11Ds doesn't suit you?

Martyr? That's for your clients to decide. It would be interesting to survey them when they have to write a cheque to pay for your P11D service.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Alternative Accounting Franchise

 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Old Greying Accountant
26th Jun 2012 20:01

These systems are going to be "epic"

At least I assume so, they have been so long in the development stage they must be!

Thanks (1)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 20:58

Epic

@OldGreyAcc - the objective is a little ambitious; to develop a business development process that is guaranteed to work for every business that goes through it.

So, yes it has been a while in development and will require ongoing improvement but if we do it (or even get close) it will be epic.

What are you doing?

Bob Harper

Crunchers - the Alternative Franchise

Thanks (0)
avatar
By thomas34
26th Jun 2012 21:25

Yes Bob

Read the document from cover to cover twice and read all of the AWeb responses to Rebecca's articles on 30 March 2012 and 18 June 2012 - so probably have a good idea of where we're heading.

I remember the times when the audit thresholds were raised on more than one occasion and some firms were worried that they'd lose business as a result. There's no evidence of that having happened.

The introduction of self-assessment itself around 1997 gave rise to some concerns that more people would do the job themselves - again there was no evidence of reduced workloads.

If this proposal really was a simplification, there might be some merit in anticipating a minor Armageddon for accountants. At the moment the cash based system is optional and I can see no logical reason why the system should be made compulsory.

With two parallel systems in play I for one will be preparing all accounts on the accruals basis and spending an extra half to one hour adjusting to arrive at the cash based profit (subject to the document not being amended to restrict hopping from one to the other).

Any accountant who merely uses the cash basis using the "simplification" argument is I think taking a risk albeit small. There may well be a cash flow advantage in using the new system but as the document says the total taxable profits over the life of a business should be broadly similar.

I don't entirely agree with this statement because the ability to use the personal allowance by capital allowance planning will be lost and for me is the biggest disincentive to using the new system. It's a simplistic argument but you could say that with tax rates of around 30% including N.I. there could be around £2K at stake.

Once people realise that the new system is anything but a simplification good accountants will be just as much in demand.

 

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 22:05

Two systems

@Thomas - thanks for your response.

I actually agree with your assessment of the past. But, like I said above the past doesn't equal the future.

I take your point about doing the comparison between the two systems and I am sure good accountants will do this. But, what about software companies targeting business owners directly to DIY their tax? How about an online system that pulls in bank statements and does a tax return?

By the way, can you explain your thoughts on the £2k tax at stake?

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accountants

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Old Greying Accountant
26th Jun 2012 23:26

To continue ...

... , over to you John ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LTKORcr1jhY#t=105s

Hang on, Terry and his friends have an intersting take, and some good advice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQT3oKA3v8&feature=related

 

 

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
26th Jun 2012 23:42

FAA

@fpurves - no, I'm an FAA,   

@OldGrayAcc - you remind me of Maxie Fields http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfkLnZhhoTY&feature=related

Bob Harper

Crunchers - Alternative Accounting Franchise

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Old Greying Accountant
26th Jun 2012 23:48

Amazing ...

... must be a first!

Although I see myself more in the context of the lyrics

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
27th Jun 2012 00:04

Really?

@OldGreyAcc - sorry, I don't see it...if you really were like that why would you hide behind a persona?

Bob Harper

Crunchers Alternative Accountants

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Old Greying Accountant
27th Jun 2012 09:15

Who's hiding ...

... I'll happily reveal my identity, for serious purposes - but enjoy my right to my privacy too, but I'm bored now, satire is no fun if you need to explain it - it's not all about you though, it takes two to Tango!

Thanks (1)
By Bob Harper
27th Jun 2012 07:44

Co-op

@Old Gray Acc - I see the future of the profession as serious and I wonder if these changes will also encourage the like of Co-op come into the market like they have with legal services http://www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/

Bob Harper

Crunchers Franchise

Thanks (0)
avatar
By thomas34
27th Jun 2012 09:04

Bob £2K

My logic may be flawed but you might like to look at.

Profits £25K before CAs. Capital expenditure £25K. Under cash rules - Profit £NIL tax paid £NIL.

Under accruals accounting, Profits £25K, CAs claimed (say) £18K, Profit £7K PA (say) £8K, Taxable Profit £NIL, tax paid £NIL. Pool carried forward £7K available to reduce future profits at a marginal rate of around 30% (albeit over several years).

My point, I think, is that profits will broadly be similar over the lifetime of a business but tax paid may not.

I'd like somebody to clear my head on this one if possible.

Tom Egerton

 

 

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Old Greying Accountant
27th Jun 2012 09:18

And ...

... the difference between you and the co-op is?

I don't doubt your seriousness Bob, but you are a virtual version of the man on the corner with the placard proclaiming "The End of the World is Nigh".

He, as you, may well be bang on, but like with a wife, the more they nag, the less you listen!

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
27th Jun 2012 09:29

£2k

@Tom - thanks for that.

I can see that with the current rules of cash accounting being optional these sort of issues arise but:

a) I don't think that will matter, clients will be able to save money with DIY tax. They think they do all the work anyway!

b) What if cash accounting is mandatory....perhaps for new businesses? Personally, I can only see this going one way and there is no stopping it.

@Old Greying Acc - trouble is, we all know wives are always right and with comments like that I now understand why you need a persona!

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accountants

Thanks (0)
By ShirleyM
27th Jun 2012 10:08

Really?

a) I don't think that will matter, clients will be able to save money with DIY tax. They think they do all the work anyway! 

Is that what your clients think? Maybe you are doing something wrong, or not doing something you should be doing. I see why you are worried about them going DIY!

 

 

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
27th Jun 2012 10:14

Yes, really

@Shirley - actually, I do have a couple of accounting clients but they work with me because of the business development input. And, they are outside the simple sole-trader segment we are talking about here.

If I worked with a sole-trader and they couldn't grow enough I would resign anyway so it doesn't effect me. 

What's interesting is that I've done old-school accounting and I am pretty good at it. It is reliable income and profitable if you apply systems. I've also done pure marketing engagements (for accountants and "real" businesses) and that's interesting and more profitable. Put the two together and everyone is a winner, except traditional accountants who can't be bothered.

Would you'd be OK to give you database of sole-traders to a software company who sells a DIY Tax product?

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accountants

Thanks (0)
By ShirleyM
27th Jun 2012 10:26

You first!

I would hate to steal your limelight.

EDIT: Bob, just in case you missed my post (didn't read it, or ignored it) , may I please refer you back to my post of 26/06/12 14:33.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By thisistibi
27th Jun 2012 10:42

@Bob

I'm curious, do you ever get any business out of AWeb, or do you just come here to wind up the regulars?

I must say that your icon (same picture you use on LinkedIn) shows you with a slightly unfortunate posture, where you look somewhat pompous.

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
27th Jun 2012 11:17

Read

@Shirley - I read you post and replied. I said "if you are not prepared to contemplate change then no need to reply" and that applies again.

Just to put you in the limelight....it seems that your business is based on a complex tax system. Is that right? And, you do not believe simplification will happen.   

@thisistibi - no, I never get any business out of AWeb and I don't see this as a wind up.

I can see cash accounting being well received and being extended. Why can't the limit be the same as cash Accounting for VAT? What can't tax be paid with VAT quarterly...just a couple of extra boxes?

By the way, I was never sure about the photo either so I'm going to change it. Thanks for the feedback.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accountants

Thanks (0)
Replying to Joe Soap:
avatar
By bigdave1971
27th Jun 2012 11:30

D'oh

Bob Harper wrote:

What can't tax be paid with VAT quarterly...just a couple of extra boxes?

Do you really think before you post?

I would love tax simplification too but it'll never be that straightforward.

Any idea what those two extra boxes on the VAT return would be? Pick two from the following Bob ...

            1) Personal allowance

            2) Other income (all sources bundled together to make one total?)

            3) Bank interest/dividends (in the quarter?)

            4) Total taxable income (what about a loss, do we carry it forward?)

            5) Total tax due?

I could go on ... but I have work to do!!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By thomas34
27th Jun 2012 11:24

Bob

Do you just come on here to wind people up? Your OP raised a valid question but you've already decided the answer and challenge every response.

I note that you haven't disputed my calculations (although I genuinely would like others more knowledgeable to comment in order to check my logic) but know that clients won't care anyway because they'll save on the accountancy fee (where have I heard that argument before?)

I'd already said that my response was subject to cash accounting not being mandatory but you apparently know different and think that it may well be so.

Incidentally, your background can easily be checked by reference to Companies House records if anybody can be bothered.

What I suggest you do is to devise some software which matches profits under each system on a cumulative basis (including the effects of potential personal allowance loss, potential losses on crystallisation of overlap relief etc.) I'll be doing this job manually but can see the attraction of standardising the calculation.

Maintaining one's client base depends upon many factors totally unconnected with cash accounting. As usual I'll let you have the last word.

 

Thanks (0)
By ShirleyM
27th Jun 2012 11:29

I give in, Bob!

Trying to understand your logic is akin to bashing my head against a brick wall.

Thanks (0)
By Bob Harper
27th Jun 2012 12:03

Brick walls

@Thomas - is the idea that I post a question and then not answer/challenge responses?

If you didn't notice, I asked a question and did get any answers, just comments. And if you haven't guessed, my style is to give back as much (or a bit more) than I get because I don't take <mod - profanity removed> from people. Especially the ones that hide behind a persona.

I didn't challenge your numbers because the principle is more important than the detail. You have a point, just check that you are not using your knowledge to justify you are safe when you may be very exposed.

I believe many sole-traders will see this very differently to accountants. I could be wrong but the questions is what if I am not...how will this impact you? 

The reason I think clients will see it differently is because my experience is that they think do all the work (bookkeeping) and don't understand what the accountant does at the year-end.

I think they will find it interesting that because of a change in the law they will be able to do it themselves. I also think the software will probably tell them their tax bill as they go. And, it could even do their tax Credit Claim for them.

@Shirley - just open the door, it is much easier.

@BigDave - OK, the last one (quarterly tax reporting/payment) for sole-traders was probably too far fetched.

Bob Harper

Crunchers Accountants

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By bigdave1971
27th Jun 2012 12:07

Bob agrees with me!!

Bob Harper wrote:

@BigDave - OK, the last one (quarterly tax reporting/payment) for sole-traders was probably too far fetched.

Chuffed!!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By colinhigginson
27th Jun 2012 12:28

The bigger picture

Bob - don't believe the hype. Simplification is a buzzword, the reality is quite the opposite.

A quick example being the child benefit collection through the tax system for higher earners - this will bring people into the self assessment system that weren't there before.

ixbrl filing being another example.

There will always be additional income streams to replace lost ones. Many accountants are doing ixbrl filing on behalf of the big four clients - seeing as the big four are charging in the region of £1,500 just to ixbrl file a CT600. Smaller firms can charge a fraction of this price and it be highly profitable work.

There are still Micro businesses who are not online in any form and are therefore requiring an accountant just to lodge a VAT Return - will they really use the accountants to lodge VAT Returns, whilst doing there own accounts?

 

Thanks (0)

Pages

Share this content

Related posts