As I sit here sweltering in my shirt and trousers (thankfully even our senior partner has seen sense and allowed the removal of ties) I find myself wondering why I have to sit here sweltering in my shirt and trousers while the women in the office come in in summer dresses as if they are going to a picnic.
It wouldn't be so bad if they had to wear them all year round, because then in winter they would be cold, but of course in winter they switch to trousers and cardigans (and I was once called in to see a partner for putting a fleece on).
Basically shouldn't this gender equality thing I keep hearing so much about cut both ways? Why is it every accountants I've worked at the dress code is
men: shirt, trousers, ties, black work shoes
women: whatever you like
Answers on a postcard.
#Edit
Just to pre-empt, this is mostly tongue in cheek, though it does bother me reasonably often.
Also I expect some of you are thinking 'ahh but women HAVE to wear heels' but to that I would say 1) I've never worked anywhere that has that rule; the worst they get it footwear wise is 'smart shoes', and 2) If heels are so evil and terrible, why do women wear them outside of work when no-one is forcing them to?!?
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Where do you work? 1986?
I am in my shorts and (very) casual summer short sleeved shirt, bare foot.
Your boss is 25 years out of date.
Any clients visiting must think you are stuck in the distant past, and wondering if you put on a bowler hat to go home in whilst holding a cane, a long full length coat and a leather briefcase*
*Edited to add I still own a full length beige coat with a zip out lining for summer use, and a rather nice leather briefcase, last used in the mid to late 90's. its got a "button out" bottom which expands so you can just fit in a thick folder, back when work came in thick folders.
"Where do you work? 1986?
I am in my shorts and (very) casual summer short sleeved shirt, bare foot."
Crikey, where do you work? Bermuda, or in your home based office? I work from home and even I have footwear on.
Have accountants really moved on that much? Maybe smaller rural based practices but no High Street accountant I know would allow that kind of a dress code. A short sleeved shirt, and no tie, is fine, even smart shorts in extreme circumstances, but bare feet I would regard as totally out of order in an office environment.
I do have some sandals under the desk if it helps.
But yes its a rural office attached to my house with only one staff member, albeit she is working from home right now of course.
Its not air conditioned, in which case to be fair I would probably have some socks and slippers on, with shoes under the desk if a client shows up unexpectedly (I try to discourage them)
Any clients visiting must think you are stuck in the distant past, and wondering if you put on a bowler hat to go home in whilst holding a cane, a long full length coat and a leather briefcase*
Well this took me back to when I was an Articled Clerk in the early 1970's. The partners all wore pin stripe trousers and waistcoats with black jackets and Bowlers. In winter a black top coat and umbrella were de rigeur.
The partners did not believe they could leave we plebs to our own devices (managers weren't a 'thing' in professional offices in those days) so the office didn't open until 9:15. They also all went to lunch at a gentleman's club every day so, to give them time to walk there and back and not have a rushed meal, we got an hour and a quarter for lunch.
Staff attire was the usual suit and tie, but we were allowed to remove our jackets in the office, except when summoned to a partner's presence. Secretaries and comptometer operators merely had to dress modestly.
After 20+ years on my own I work from home but in arranging client visits I usually arrange them for being on my way to check the sheep or on my way home from doing so. The expect me to turn up in a muddy Defender and to be dressed in a similar manner.
I have two suits which are worn for funerals and weddings and to judge sheep in the show ring. Oh, and twice a year to attend board meetings of the breed society which are held at the Carlton club in London. You will not be admitted there improperly dressed (the porters have spare ties to lend to such vagabonds) and it is not permitted to set foot outside the meeting room without a jacket. Ladies are not forced into jackets and ties!
My father's law firm in the 70s was not that different except it was afternoon tea at 4.00 pm which the partners all partook together, as the temporary mail clerk in the summer of 1976 part of my job was to purchase the cakes on my way up to the office where I started work at 3.00 p.m.
A lightweight kilt must be the way to go- a cheap imported kilt from Pakistan, as sold in many shops on the Royal Mile, will likely be cool as they use very little fabric (albeit most of them are man made). Couple it with a Ghillie shirt for some upper body air circulation and you are then smart enough to go to a wedding yet still reasonably cool.
The blue woad is optional.
Utility kilts are the way to go!
I've been rocking mine often while working from home. It went down "well" on the daily zoom chats, but not tried it in the office yet... might get a different reaction ;)
I’ve worked at places where women where practically what they want. Always funny on dress down days when the blokes are in jeans and a T-shirt and the women are wearing something similar to the day before.
Personally, I think a tie is an outdated concept, along with attending the office 5 days per week.
If you’re sweltering, turn the air con up or buy a fan.
I'm currently kicked back on the chaise lounge with an alcohol free Woo Woo in hand, a light breeze creeping up the leg of my shorts, gently caressing the inside of my pale chubby thighs. I know this doesn't help you, but I wanted you to have to think about that image.
I've not worn a suit or tie to the office in well over 20 years. The firm has had a 'smart casual' code for yonks.
Still WFH on lockdown so presently vest & shorts is the new normal...with a smart shirt to hand in case of an unexpected Teams call on video
What's your definition of smart casual?
To me, its shirt open neck possibly with sleeves rolled up. Or at least no tie and jacket. Yet judging by what I've seen, the younger generations class it as anything at all - including sweatpants.
I still have four suits, one is a better quality, light fabric, partially tailored one that despite being far too small has remained in the wardrobe in case miracles do happen , one is a really cheap and nasty grey suit that does not fit and ought to go out, one is a pinstripe that does fit and is reasonably okay (bought for my last funeral), it is also my bank meetings suit, and the last one is my "Our Man in Havana" light summer suit which was particularly used for the St Andrews graduation garden parties when the kids got their days in the sun and my wife and mother in law got an outing for their hats- the jacket also usually gets to go on summer holidays in case I need a more formal jacket when going out for a meal, jackets being the male equivalent of a handbag (they carry wallet, keys, tissues, coins, cigars, lighter)
I haven't worn a suit and tie for over 20 years which includes working for large corporations and Big 4 firms. Generally ties seemed to disappear around 2006 even when men would wear a suit. If I see a man in a suit and tie these days it looks very old fashioned, even newsreaders on TV.
Sunak does.
As do all politicians. Is that saying something on their mind set?
Blue or red tie seems to be the only variation. Sorry Libdems a yellow tie just does not do it and a green one struggles with a dark blue suit.
Well, each to their own but I'm quite surprised by some of the above posts.
I've been my own boss now for about 25 years and have seldom had staff but, for 9 months of the year anyway, I still wear suits and I still wear ties even in the office. For me at least looking the part is a daily routine which helps me get in the zone for another day at the coal face.
Even now in the summer, I'm wearing a smart work shirt and decent trousers (no tie though). And, yes, currently feeling uncomfortably moist in all the wrong places. I also wouldn't dream of going to a client's not wearing a suit even at this time of year. Maybe it's just me or maybe it's my client base but I still find the man in the smart suit gets listened to, the man in scruffy polyester gets ignored, and the man in overalls gets treated like a mate rather than someone to listen to.
Its you.
My clients use me for my brain not suit. And I am not ignored.
Shorts and T-shirt at the moment even with zoom.
Regrettably, it appears just the way it is.
Until Covid19, that was exactly our office requirement. Men had a long list of required wear (Shoes, suit and trousers, shirt and tie). The tie requirement was relaxed in office when not meeting clients about 10 years ago.
Women never had any requirements at all. Most DID go for something smart, but over the years I've seen anything from female 'suits' to just blouses and a skirt.
However, from March this year, its now a free for all. Wear what you want, when you want. I went in today (our office is drifting back slowly) I am the only one in shirt and tie. Bermuda shorts. Garish T-shirts that would make the 1980s blush.... that sort of thing. Haven't seen any pyjama's yet, but its coming......
Our office is equally strict on female dress code, while not imposing any specific requirements. Some of the female staff thought that they were not required to look professional and so wore ripped and large logo'd tat. HR soon had that sorted out and explained where they had chosen to work and so what was required.
For the male staff the rules are equally free, but the use of suits is still common among those that actually care about professional values and how they look, including many of the younger staff. Ties are rarely worn, but that is a personal choice and one that I would obviously consider a mistake!
Just because we have a global pandemic doesn't mean dress code should be abandoned ... but the heatwave, now that's a different matter. Mind you it's only just touching 30C in the office, so it has cooled down from yesterday.
Sandals and socks, though, remains an instant dismissal offence, of course.
Some proper stone age mentality on here. If your clients think less of you for wearing a garish Hawaiian shirt or mesh booty shorts then bin them IMO. I will not have people dictate what I can and cannot wear. The fact that I rock up to the office in a Rab C Nesbitt vest and chaps is only the business of me and potentially HR if I slip out of the chaps.
Strange as it may seem, many tradespeople and crafts-persons, these days, have some seriously impressive and expensive kit, often supported by a well polished commercial van, or pick-up. They are often well turned out, in clean De-Waltz type protective clothing and in turn, I've always taken the view that you should take pride in your appearance. As I've aged, I've taken to reasonably priced, but striking brogues and on occasions, I still enjoy wearing a fancy suit. A range of eau de parfums simply adds to the day. And plenty of Aveeno, for my knackered skin!
My daughter will often ask; "what makes you tick Dad"? My reply; "I'm 64, I still enjoy what I do, I really enjoy people, positively love my role as a vice-chair of Governors and still wake up giddy" I follow this adage by, each and every day, trying to be just a touch better, at what I did, yesterday. Part of that philosophy, is how I'm "turned out". Just saying.........................
You need to embrace [***] shirt Friday as pioneered by myself throughout lockdown, where Hawaiian shirts are worn on Fridays, always a zoom talking point.
Articled in the 1960's I remember talking to an articled clerk from another firm* about having to put my jacket on if I went to see a partner. He didn't understand the concept of an articled clerk going to see a partner.
* OK it was Peat Marwick.
Back in the 1970s when I joined a well-known clearing bank the rules for women were very strict. Trousers could be worn only if the branch manager allowed this (some didn't) and they had to be in dark colours. Summertime absolutely no strappy tops - shoulders had to be covered - and tights (or stockings) had to be worn in all temperatures. That was also the age when female staff were not entitled to a staff mortgage but had to go to a building society.... My 30 year old daughter can't believe it!
The good old days with things like the "election for separate taxation of husbands and wives" running well into the 1980s.
I got my first bank account in 1976 following being taken to the local Bank of Scotland by my father, introduced to the Bank Accountant (Assistant manager I think?) and getting given a deposit account.
I then in 1978 graduated to a current account, for that I needed to meet the branch manager who gave me a lecture about operating said account, the trust the bank was placing in me not to abuse it (write uncovered cheques) etc. I recall that I was only able to withdraw cash at my own branch though eventually one other branch up near the university was sorted as a place that would give me cash in exchange for a cheque (initially no guarantee card given to me).
Then again with my grant being the large sum of £50 per term I really did not carry much in the bank account, though did sometimes pay in some of my bar earnings which I got paid in cash on a Friday within a brown wage envelope that detailed any deductions etc on its outside, was torn open and accordingly I now have no payslips lying around from the 1970s (I do have some 1980s onwards ones still in files lying about somewhere)
We had "Y-front Wednesday" as our Zoom theme yesterday, great to see all the ladies joined in, but sadly not all the men. In view of the heat everyone is allowed to "Go Commando" tomorrow, but please Dennis we don't need you to prove it like you did last time.
We are fairly relaxed here, for males and females, but it is still much easier for the ladies to keep cool. We relaxed ties a year or so ago but men generally wear long sleeved shirts and trousers - some with a tie, some without. The ladies look smart enough although they could just as easily be out shopping as at work - the 'professional standard' of dress is set somewhat lower for them, as it has been pretty much everywhere I have ever worked.
Previous firms have been the same - suits for the guys, dresses and sandals for the girls. The girls, of course, pushed the boundary on footwear (when does a sandal become more of a flip flop) and on more strappy tops and flowy dresses etc.
It's not just comfort in the heat - the standard of dress required for women is generally cheaper too. I wonder what would happen if we gave the blokes a 'suit allowance' on top of their basic pay and only gave it to the women if they started dressing up a bit?
I doubt it is overall cheaper- I get to see our credit card statements !!!
The division of our wardrobe space is certainly near 75:25 and not in my favour.
Whilst individual suits may cost more I tend not to own as many suits as my other half has outfits, and do not get me started on shoes, boots and handbags.
Oh I quite agree that in many cases women may spend more on clothes generally (my wife being an exception to the rule - she will often encourage me to spend but hates buying stuff for, or generally spending money on, herself).
What I mean is that women’s clothing ‘can’ be cheaper, particularly in terms of what a lot of my current and former colleagues wear to the office.
And can also be more expensive- in my younger life in the very early 90s I was FD at a clothing retailer, mainly Benetton shops but we had one "factory" outlet selling previous season designer clothing, JP Gaultier , Enrico Coveri and other designer labels etc, these were certainly not that cheap even as previous season factory sales (We were TK Maxx before there was a TK Maxx)
I'm still not convinced. I'm not sure if I'm not explaining it well, or whether with Primark/Tesco etc times have moved on.
My belief is that, if a male and a female went shopping and wanted to satisfy the typical office environment in the cheapest way possible, whilst still not looking out of place, it would cost more for the man.
Yes- but he only needs one outfit which he wears all week(ignoring shirts) whereas she possibly needs five outfits.
My father is the only man I ever met who owned five identical pairs of office shoes rotating them daily (and polishing them daily) but even he did not wear five different suits in one week.(though he did own a fair few suits)
Fair comment about the single suit.
I did wonder whether to take a quick visual survey of the female staff to see what they were wearing, since I don't normally take too much notice. Half of them are working from home, though, and a came out of my office to be greeted by one of the ladies putting a file away in trousers and a top that didn't quite meet, and a pair of frilly pink kecks poking out the top at the back. At that stage I figured it was safer just to go back to my own room and not look too closely.
Shoes should not be worn on two consecutive days - you should allow at least a day's rotation to allow them to dry fully.
We have been given flexibility to go "smart casual" but most of the guys continue to wear suits and shirts, but without ties most days. The general view is that when you've forked out for a full wardrobe of office attire, it makes sense to just keep wearing it and to save wear and tear on your own casual clothes.
The male suit used to be made of wool and lined in rayon ... so it was comfortable and breathable even in hot weather, particularly with a cotton shirt. With the advent of cheap synthetic fabrics and mixes from about the 1970s suits have become hot and clammy in all weathers, as have other garments. Women have great difficulty buying office attire, unless they spend a lot of money. Most shops are geared to "fashion" rather than work. Women are expected to wear a different outfit every day (where were you last night if you did not change?), so you ended up with a wardrobe of winter suits and summer suits/smart dresses in muted colours, particularly if you did not want to be mistaken for junior staff. Tights/stockings (pop sox under trousers or long skirts) were a requirement. These are very uncomfortable in hot weather, so a wardrobe of both shoes and sandals is required. Pockets on women's clothes are not made to be functional, so a handbag wardrobe accumulates together with gloves in different weights for winter and summer (helps against infections, not just Covid). Then there are the spare pair of shoes under the desk (can't wear wet shoes or boots indoors), spare earrings and necklace (unprofessional without). At least two coats - one for winter and another for showers - add to the basic expenditure. Yes, I still remember everyone gathering for a meeting with all the men and women collecting their jackets and putting them on going down the corridor to the partner's offices or a client meeting. If a female does not wear professional office dress she is usually mistaken for admin staff, so you soon learn. Even when I was properly dressed and was a client with a significant budget at my disposal being entertained with by some IT consultants, another client asked me to get him more coffee. We still have a long way to go. (n.b., this is just the office wardrobe; evening clothes are still needed for functions, and then the clothes women need to wear out with kids, doing DIY, etc.,).
Agreed.
Whilst my wife does not quite have the space for distinct clothes storage by season, her summer/winter clothes being deprived and requiring to share accommodation with one another, my mother in law (who even at over 90 could clothes shop for Scotland) has distinct seasonal wardrobes.
The suit point is also correct, my one really good (for me expensive) suit (now a few sizes too small) was really comfortable to wear and had very breathable fabric, same with all leather (uppers and soles) shoes keeping one's feet cooler, in fact when I did regularly spend money on suits etc my one excess was spending extra on good quality shoes and buying office suits with two pairs of trousers and one jacket.
As a newly qualified (female) accountant in a smaller London practice in the 1990's I used to wear suits (always skirt suits) with court shoes most of the time as I wanted to look like an accountant not admin staff. Most of the accounting staff were male and required to wear suits (and ties if meeting clients). I think ladies suits were cheaper but I liked to be bold so they have included a red suit and a cerise pink one! I used to have quite a few suits at any time, people notice if you wear a red suit 2 days running!
Now I work for myself I wear "smart casual" to meet clients but anything I like to work at home.
In the 1980s I moved from practice to a job working for an IT company. It was very refreshing to be able to wear whatever I liked, within the limits of common sense. That was over 30 years ago, as the more numerical amongst you will already have worked out. Jeez, suits and ties are definitely optional these days.