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Help needed with MTD

MTD will cause me major problems, wish to use client's Government Gateway to submit VAT returns.

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I had an email from HMRC a couple of weeks ago encouraging me to sign up for MTD which I have been avoiding like the plague. Alas, I succumbed! Looks like a seriously bad mistake. I only have one VAT registered client and his turnover is well below the compulsory registration theshold. Clearly I cannot justify the cost of the MTD software. I have just attempted to file the December 2018 VAT return using the VAT section of my own HMRC client list to find a warning message that since I am now registered for MTD the return will not be received if I proceed. Good old HMRC! Don't you just love them.

It seems from Rebecca Cave's article of December 2018 that I cannot wriggle out of the MTD registration. If so, I would be happy to leave it fallow. The client has his own Government Gateway registration. Could he register for VAT returns through that and then use that to file without registering for MTD.

Thanks in advance for any help available.

Replies (24)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Jan 2019 17:59

Sure he could.

I didn't pick up on the point that, if the accountant opts for MTD, he has to submit MTD returns for all his clients.

Are you sure that's right ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
24th Jan 2019 18:17

Thanks, but the message on my "non-MTD" VAT page was clear about all returns not being received if I tried to submit from there.

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By Anita14
24th Jan 2019 18:01

Your client would need to log in to the Government Gateway himself and check he has access to the VAT account. He may not if you are his agent.

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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
24th Jan 2019 18:11

Thanks, Anita,
That's very helpful!

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RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Jan 2019 18:22

So, clearly, we're going to have to link clients' MTD to a Gateway of their own, rather than our Agents' Gateway.

That's jolly interesting.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
24th Jan 2019 18:36

Thanks, but I am looking to avoid MTD which is why I am hoping that by the use of the client's Gov Gateway account I am able to achieve my goal. If his turnover is below the registration threshold then surely there should be no need for him to register for MTD.

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Replying to GamekeeperTurnedPoacher:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Jan 2019 18:43

Sure - I was merely musing from a selfish point of view.

Too late for you, I'm afraid. Though I'm grateful for your experience.

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Replying to GamekeeperTurnedPoacher:
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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
25th Jan 2019 14:01

Given he's below the VAT threshold, doesn't he have until December 2019 before MTD becomes mandatory?

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Replying to I'msorryIhaven'taclue:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Jan 2019 14:19

If he's below the threshold, no date has been announced yet.

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By johnhemming
24th Jan 2019 19:34

I don't know the strict answer to your question because it could be yes, but in theory it is no and I would be surprised if it were yes. When vat accounts are transferred to MTD they are transferred to a new computer and I cannot think that is any different for agent accounts. HMRC were getting a bit stressed about people signing up to the pilot and submitting via XML or the gateway as the data just gets lost.

If you want me to help you sort this out without any charge or commitment just contact me via DM and we can resolve it. It should take about 20 mins.

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Replying to johnhemming:
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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
24th Jan 2019 20:19

Thanks, John,
I may have to accept your kind offer. I will let you know.

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Replying to GamekeeperTurnedPoacher:
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By johnhemming
25th Jan 2019 07:06

It might be easier to email me (my email address is quite widely advertised) [email protected] or [email protected]

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By Matrix
24th Jan 2019 21:05

I don’t really understand.

So are you saying that once an agent signs up for MTD then they can’t submit any returns for non-MTD clients?

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Replying to Matrix:
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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
28th Jan 2019 16:23

Hi, Matrix,
This only applies to VAT but it brings in ALL VAT clients whether they are above or below the VAT compulsory registration threshold. I cannot get away from thinking that the email that induced me to register was like click-bait and that I fell for it. Fortunately my client has his own Government Gateway and so we arranged through that for him to submit the VAT return himself after I had produced the figures for him.
I feel as if I have beaten the system! Still wish though that I hadn't signed up. C'est la vie!

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Replying to GamekeeperTurnedPoacher:
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By Matrix
28th Jan 2019 17:07

I still don’t understand, so if I register half my clients for MTD then I can’t file VAT returns for the other half from my existing agent account?

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Replying to Matrix:
By Duggimon
28th Jan 2019 17:11

No, that's not the case, you have to sign up as an agent and then sign up the individual clients. When you sign up for MTD you get a different agent login, through that you add clients one by one (I think, I've not put anyone on it yet).

I'm pretty certain, reading between the lines in gamekeeper's posts, that he has not signed his client up for MTD and is worried about the generic warning that shows up when you file a normal return through the old style agent login, per my post below.

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By SXGuy
25th Jan 2019 07:30

What stops you getting a new vat agent code and re authorising the client for vat through that?

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By Duggimon
25th Jan 2019 09:14

I don't believe you've signed your client up for MTD. I think you've created an agent account and not done anything else. I suspect the message that's getting you so worried is this one:

HMRC wrote:

If you have signed up for the Making Tax Digital pilot you should not use this service to file your return. You must file using MTD compatible and enabled software. If you file using this portal your return will not be received.

For return periods starting on/after 1 April 2019, the vast majority of VAT registered businesses making taxable supplies over the threshold (£85,000) will have to keep digital records, and submit their returns using Making Tax Digital compatible software. For more information, including how to join the pilot select here.

If that's the case, it shows up on all the returns and doesn't mean you can't file, you just carry on regardless.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By johnhemming
25th Jan 2019 11:20

I have had people who think this message means they have signed up.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
28th Jan 2019 17:12

Yes, that is the message and while I take your point I am not convinced. I arranged with my client to use his Government Gateway to set up VAT filing and gave him the figures to complete the return. When he logged on he saw the same message but since he is not registered for MTD then he proceeded to file and has the usual confirmation. We will use that route in future.

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By bernard michael
25th Jan 2019 10:09

I'm curious
What rationale did you adopt that made it appear beneficial for you to sign up.
Turkeys & Christmas spring to mind

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Replying to bernard michael:
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By GamekeeperTurnedPoacher
28th Jan 2019 17:22

Yes, I know. I thought that all I was doing was signing up IN CASE I needed the service in the future which was what HMRC's email seemed to be saying and was horrified when I realised what I had done or perhaps what HMRC are saying that I have done. I feel that HMRC has tricked me with a click-bait type situation. I pride myself on not falling for that type of stuff but think I've been stuffed this time!
Anyway, client takes the figures for the VAT return from me now and files using his own Government Gateway account. I see that as a sort of victory, a beating of the system, call it what you will.

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By nodrogbir
25th Jan 2019 11:59

All I ask is why everything with HMRC is so difficult to deal with. I thought digitalisation was trying to make things simple. All I seem to do right now is be in a dialogue with HMRC online support and go no proper conclusion. Time to retire.

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Replying to nodrogbir:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Jan 2019 12:03

nodrogbir wrote:

All I ask is why everything with HMRC is so difficult to deal with.

It's their modus operandi.

I didn't think it was deliberate at first but I've become convinced that it is.

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