bernard michael
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HMRC fulsome apology

HMRC fulsome apology

Following an earlier post I've just received the promised HMRC apology for their cockup, which nearly caused a client's valued employee to resign:-

"Further to your telephone call to our Contact Centre regarding the 2014-2015 income details.

-RTI submissions had been duplicated causing an underpayment of tax this has now been corrected and the underpayment cancelled"

I thought HMRC used computers systems for PAYE so how can an RTI submission to them be duplicated.(they certainly were not sent twice) What they don't answer is that the figures they quoted in their original letter were for different not the same amounts. Duplication means the same doesn't it ?

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29th Feb 2016 12:00

I feel your pain

I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened to me! And they always say the same thing, duplication of submissions or even duplications of payroll records (ie same PAYE ref, same employer but for some reason they've got two records).

They always tell me that I must've submitted an FPS twice and to talk to my payroll software provider. Obviously this is not the case and it's just a screw up at their end which seems to take forever to get sorted as they refuse to tell me what submissions they've actually received.

And again you're right, even though duplication is their excuse the amounts are never simply double what I've submitted. They seem to pluck figures out of the air!

Rant over.

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By hje
29th Feb 2016 12:02

RTI

duplications used to occur when an employee had their reference/clock number changed.

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29th Feb 2016 12:08

Same thing

Yes, had three employees' records duplicated when I allocated works numbers for AE.

£10000+ they wanted.

It only took two months to sort out.

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29th Feb 2016 13:48

Roll on RTI for

Accounts and tax returns!  Digitalisation here we come, what could possibly go wrong?

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02nd Mar 2016 10:56

Me too

I've just had a nightmare trying to sort out four clients where different 'Works Numbers' had been generated for one director - the normal Sage employee works number on one, say 'BLOGGS1' or whatever and the RTI reference number on the other.  The amount of back and forth between software provider blaming HMRC and HMRC blaming the software provider was ridiculous and cost me hours of time.  In the end, after months of arguing between senior people in both organisations, I phoned the helpline and the person on the other end tells me that they have just cancelled one of the employments.  I wait with baited breath to find out whether this follows through to conclusion.

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By Maximus
02nd Mar 2016 11:20

Had something similar....
I had a check into a client's SATR where our figures didn't agree with what they said the employer had submitted. I replied with copies of everything and the employer's confirmation that they had submitted the same figures as on the return, and asked HMRC to show me where they got their figures from if they still didn't accept that the return was correct. Had a letter back two weeks later (so by return for them) saying they had completed their check and no adjustment was required. They know their system is unreliable, they just don't admit it.

As someone above said, what can possibly go wrong with further digitisation??

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By NYB
02nd Mar 2016 11:37

Never Their Fault

Why is it is never, never, never, their fault. Don't think they have evr admitted to a fault their end.

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02nd Mar 2016 12:22

Never Their Fault

NYB wrote:

Why is it is never, never, never, their fault. Don't think they have evr admitted to a fault their end.

 

Like most Government Departments, either they write the rule book to say "Rule 1 - HMRC can never be wrong and admit it" then rule 2 is "In the event of HMRC being wrong, then rule 1 applies.  OR they just claim that they have Government Immunity, something that the MOD has done for years.

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By HGW
02nd Mar 2016 13:13

HMRC apologies

It has taken HMRC seven months to sort out a problem with the RTI on a payroll with just two employees. I am waiting to hear whether they will offer any redress, but I am not optimistic.

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02nd Mar 2016 14:49

Court of Appeal yesterday

in BPP Holdings  v.  The Commissioners for her Majesty's Revenue and Customs

the Senior President of Tribunals said "I found the approach of HMRC to compliance to be disturbing. At times it came close to arguing that HMRC, as a State agency, should be treated like a litigant in person and that the constraints of austerity on an agency like the HMRC should in some way excuse unacceptable behaviour."

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03rd Mar 2016 08:47

Kate Upcraft explains how duplicated employments occur

Kate Upcraft has written numerous articles for AccountingWEB recently about how duplicated employments occur, along with the general standard of both RTI data and payment data coming into HMRC, plus the grave concerns we all have about this as we roll out Universal Credit to 8m people over the next few years.

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03rd Mar 2016 12:32

A case today

About four months ago, I pointed a new employee of a client in the right direction to resolve his BR code.  HMRC were under the impression that he had another job, the employee put them right, new tax code issued, everybody happy.

Today, the same employee has told me that he has received a 2016/17 coding notice - BR.

<sigh>

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03rd Mar 2016 15:21

Causes bad feeling
I wish HMRC could understand the bad feeling their incorrect and rather rude 'debt' chasing letters create between clients and agents. We have a couple on going now, so I think I'll do the paper deluge response and send them the encrypted reports, and ref numbers and ask them where the differences are. It might be the only way to get to the bottom of it.

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09th Mar 2016 08:48

Oddly enough, I've just learned the joys of emailing the CEO, which gets me a call booked not just in a specific week, or even a specific day, but at a time of my choosing. Now, in this instance there are an entire catalogue of delays and errors, but where progress is impossible it may be something to consider.

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09th Mar 2016 10:04

Stelacc You'll probably find that it's been booked with the lovely Lyn H  as they haven't updated the appointment system since she left

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09th Mar 2016 10:25

Hope not

bernard michael wrote:

Stelacc You'll probably find that it's been booked with the lovely Lyn H  as they haven't updated the appointment system since she left

Nah, it'll be someone from Trusts & Estates, hopefully with an answer to my 9 month old question.

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10th Mar 2016 09:01

Nine months ?

I'm still waiting for a reply from November 2002 about Class 4 NIC on sub-postmaster's salaries.

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10th Mar 2016 09:34

Well, I can report that the call came, conference call with  a (extremely apologetic) inspector, and an HMRC solicitor specialising in IHT, and whilst I don't have my answer yet, we made progress.

It does seem that going to the top gets results.

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