HMRC Helpline say I didn't pass security

Has this happened to you?

Didn't find your answer?

I'm clearly registered as agent for client according to HMRC website. HMRC wrote to client saying they owe him £94.50 PAYE and it must be his fault. He couldn't possibly have submitted all the data required.
I surmise the first submission I made for him for 5/4/19 for exactly that amount has gone astray, possibly because he started business on 1/4/19. As CIS agent only I can't view his PAYE submissions.

I just tried calling them. I had to make 2 attempts, as they didn't like the way I worded the query the first time around. When I got through I was asked copious questions and they then announced I hadn't passed security and therefore they couldn't speak to me and couldn't say why this had failed.
I told them I will write to them replying to their letter but I don't have any great hope that anything will be done and I won't care.
Has this happened to you?
This is just further proof that HMRC don't want to deal with agents.

Replies (17)

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By Crouchy
19th Feb 2021 08:54

more likely to be HMRC staff incompetance

this has happened to us many times, we've called back and got through security with exactly the same details

Thanks (3)
Replying to Crouchy:
By Moonbeam
19th Feb 2021 09:34

I think you're right. It was so awful just trying to get through to them this morning, I need to leave a few days before I try again. At present I'm just full of expletives!

Thanks (1)
Replying to Crouchy:
RLI
By lionofludesch
19th Feb 2021 13:23

Crouchy wrote:

more likely to be HMRC staff incompetance

Ah yes. The old "I've no idea so I'll just tell the fella I'm not allowed to speak to him" gag.

Thanks (1)
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By rmillaree
19th Feb 2021 09:22

I'm clearly registered as agent for client according to HMRC website.

I wander if this is an historical issue perhaps ? my memory is slightly groggy here but i think the old skool FBI2 forms added clients into agent area but gave you no authority to interact with hmrc anywhere else. There used to be similar issues with vat if you were added in vat certain routes that i can't remember (client ading you via their gateway perhaps?)

The other issue could be that as cis agent only perhaps you can't liaise with paye - that would make sense if you haven't appointed yourself as paye not sure why you would presume they would speak to you ref paye balance - even though practicably spekaking its all cis :). Unless it would boot someone else off i would recommend doing paye at same time as cis as cis doesnt really work without also having paye.

For any issued like this i would default to applying for cis and/or paye online pincode in the hope that these pincodes would remove historical problems ref FBI2 filed but no 64-8 filed.Or 64-8 filed not being processed as paye and cis as needed. If you are cis only though i think you may have issued speaking ref paye !

Note sometimes old school 64-8 clearly marked paye and cis (or cis only if that flats your boat) can make glitches in the matrix go away so it may make sense to email client 64-8 to sign and post on to hmrc if you think that is the case. In theory though the pincode route should fully work in that regard so this step is not needed.

Thanks (1)
By Duggimon
19th Feb 2021 09:59

I called the VAT line on Tuesday, got through security fine but got told a load of rubbish. Called back on Wednesday about the same client but then failed security.

Thankfully the chap on Wednesday persevered and asked some more questions and accepted I was indeed the agent, time will tell if he's done a better job of actually fixing things though, a five figure VAT refund is in the wind!

Thanks (3)
Kitten
By Hazel Accounts
19th Feb 2021 10:06

"As CIS agent only I can't view his PAYE submissions".

If you can't see his PAYE then maybe you are not his registered agent for PAYE so won't be able to clear security? Agent authority has to be applied for separately for each tax - and payroll is the worst as it has 2 levels of authorisation which I admit I've never properly understood (I just apply for full access).

Thanks (2)
By Moonbeam
19th Feb 2021 10:33

You've all been so helpful, as usual. I tried applying to be his PAYE agent a month or so ago and got the message that HMRC didn't recognise the scheme number or a/cs office ref no.
In between I did manage to get through to the PAYE people because they'd set up the CIS scheme so it wouldn't accept CIS refund submissions. They then changed things.
My CIS refund submission then went through. Now you've reminded me to reapply, and my request to be PAYE agent has now gone through.
So I suspect this is why I've been told I couldn't speak to them. (Although they would speak to me earlier, of course.)
Nothing like a conversation with HMRC to make you feel like some sort of criminal on the run!

Thanks (1)
Lone Wolf
By Lone_Wolf
19th Feb 2021 17:23

I failed the other day with the person on the phone adamant that the address I was giving them for my client - a company - was wrong.

Are you sure? That's the registered office at Companies House. And what's more, it's also the address on their online account in the "About Your Client" section.

No. It's definitely wrong.

Called back straight away and tried again. No issues.

The incompetence on the phone lines is unbelievable at times.

Thanks (2)
By Nebs
24th Feb 2021 10:15

When the Collector Of Taxes phones you and says: "This is HMRC, I'm phoning about Mrs Smith who still owes £1,200 self assessment tax" then your reply should be "I'll just ask you a few security questions: What are the last three letters of my clients maiden name, what date did they register for VAT, who won the cup final in 1939, sorry, you've failed security, I can't talk to you about this persons debt".

Thanks (2)
Replying to Nebs:
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By Ben Alligin
24th Feb 2021 10:45

One of my security questions to a call from HMRC was 'What is the client's favourite flavour of ice cream?'. It was with great glee that I told them they had failed security and put the 'phone down.
That kept me chuckling for weeks, and I am still smiling as I type this.
If every accountant receiving a call from HMRC came up with a spurious reason as to why not to take their call, they might just get the message. The alternative is to ask HMRC for anything in writing and advise them that you anticipating replying to their letter in October 2023.

Thanks (2)
Replying to Ben Alligin:
Morph
By kevinringer
24th Feb 2021 13:08

Ben , no need for spurious reasons, just play back to HMRC their recorded message to agents: 'Everything you need to know is on GOV.UK, we're too busy to speak to you, call another time when our office is closed, goodbye.'

Thanks (1)
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By Michael Davies
24th Feb 2021 10:16

You got through well done.I have tried three times since Xmas on the agent line and I am afraid I gave up after thirty minutes.I am hoping in March response times are a lot quicker when I will try again .My Daughter was on the phone waiting for fifty minutes for a response.She had no choice.They had screwed up her tax affairs so badly;that she would be very short on her monthly net pay.I understand Covid restrictions;but this level of service is unacceptable.On one occasion I received a recorded message to say they were so busy they were not accepting any calls.

Thanks (3)
Replying to Michael Davies:
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By Wanderer
24th Feb 2021 10:53

Agreed.

The service has got so bad now I've given up phoning HMRC. Now I just fire off a letter.

Will take them longer to deal with than if they would just revert to the previous level of ADL service but I'm not prepared to sit on the phone for 20 /40 /60 minutes waiting for them to condascend to answer.

Thanks (2)
Replying to Michael Davies:
Kitten
By Hazel Accounts
24th Feb 2021 11:14

I've had that message too, couple times and usually near the end of the day. If they're going to do that why do you still have to listen to a load of messages first - just say so!

Others have said try and call first thing as they're less busy and I have to agree as it worked for me - short wait and the agent was helpful and let me deal with two cases.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Hazel Accounts:
Pile of Stones
By Beach Accountancy
09th Mar 2021 17:31

I hate phoning HMRC. I now use webchat as much as possible. At least you don't have to listen to the bloody awful music.

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Replying to Beach Accountancy:
Morph
By kevinringer
09th Mar 2021 20:26

Can you get any client work done through webchat. I've not used it because feedback from other accountants is accountants can't clear security.

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Grace Heathfield
By Grace Mock
24th Feb 2021 12:23

We've had a similar experience. Some HMRC staff are more comfortable than others about using a common sense approach. Others just stick to the exact rule book and you have to have PAYE authorisation even though it was a CIS issue. I have found, though, that you can just call back and take pot luck on getting a different answer next time. Hugely frustrating. I make a point of congratulating the really good ones when I stumble across them - I reckon it must be crap working for HMRC if you are actually competent. Not only do you get berated by agents and "customers" who have been wound up by your incompetent colleagues, you also have to sort out their messes too.

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