HMRC must be desperate for cash

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I asked for a notice to file to be withdrawn for the 19/20 tax year for a client,  which HMRC agreed to and is marked as submitted on their SA account. On checking this afternoon, they've issued a £100 penalty for late filing, even though the deadline isn't until 31st January anyway. Are HMRC that hard up for cash?

Just to be on the safe side, I've checked previous year, which was filed on time.  Will a phone call suffice or will it need to be appealed?

Replies (19)

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By Paul Crowley
15th Jan 2021 14:25

What HMRC did was to pretend you filed a paper return

Idiots on the HMRC agent line do not understand HMRC computer system and never will

Agent line again
Operator did not have an effing clue about CGT on domestic property
Suggested I print off the paper version from website
Spoiler

Not there

That I could do it

Spoiler client needs to authorise, despite being digitally excluded

Agent line has become a monkey line based on quality of HMRC operatives

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By legerman
17th Jan 2021 17:34

Paul Crowley wrote:

What HMRC did was to pretend you filed a paper return

Ah thanks Paul, that would explain it. Strangely enough I did another one before New Year which was accepted, and no penalty imposed, so I guess that one was treated as an online return.

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Replying to legerman:
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By Paul Crowley
17th Jan 2021 17:41

Had this happen several times over the last four years
I would guess 50% of times they get it wrong

This year I just submitted blank returns for those that should be out of the system

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By johnjenkins
20th Jan 2021 10:15

I did the same and each got a letter saying they didn't have to do any more returns (it actually says the last year was the last return they had to do.

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By New To Accountancy
15th Jan 2021 14:27

I've just appealed for the same reason, I had a copy of them agreeing to withdraw the client from self assessment, so I just sent that in with my appeal.
My appeal was very short and sweet and they agreed and withdraw it, how could they not though?
I rarely make phone calls anymore, sometimes calls are not recorded on the notes meaning I have to repeat over and over so I just don't bother now.

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By Paul D Utherone
15th Jan 2021 15:46

Based on comments on the HMRC/Agent Forum the ADL has been part of the general enquiry line since everyone started working from home because of C19 so it's lucky dip who you get now.

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Replying to Paul D Utherone:
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By Paul Crowley
15th Jan 2021 20:45

That had indeed been my conclusion

Used to happen on overspills before covid

All operator needs to say is what happened
Not pretend to be an agent line operator

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By legerman
17th Jan 2021 17:39

Paul Crowley wrote:

That had indeed been my conclusion

Used to happen on overspills before covid

All operator needs to say is what happened
Not pretend to be an agent line operator

To be fair, None of the people have I've spoken to have claimed to be agent aware, and I've been conscious that wasn't the case anyway. Indeed, one lady I spoke to said she didn't normally work on agent stuff. All of those I've spoken to (non complex stuff admittedly) have dealt with my issues competently

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By Michael Beaver
15th Jan 2021 22:13

We've had one this week as well. Had the client call them and they removed it as 'it was an overlap'. Whatever that means.

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Replying to michaelbeaver:
By Paul D Utherone
16th Jan 2021 15:44

michaelbeaver wrote:

We've had one this week as well. Had the client call them and they removed it as 'it was an overlap'. Whatever that means.


It means: "OOPS! that was dealt with by an untrained induhvidual who can't follow a script!"
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By SteveHa
18th Jan 2021 09:24

When I worked for HMRC and was quite high ranking in the largest branch of the PCS, one of my (union) colleagues found himself in hot water for referring to some of the lowliest members of HMRC staff as "Chimps".

Perhaps he was on to something, after all.

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
19th Jan 2021 17:49

Everything you're saying is being echoed from every direction. For the past month or so we've been writing about the stresses accountants are under and how people are coping with the burden of self assessment on top of all the Covid support demands.

I try hard to resist ritual jibes at HMRC's expense because they, too, have been under the cosh. But the cynicism and betrayal of "customer service" by withdrawing support where and when it is most needed is breath-taking - and appears to have happened a long time ago.

OK, so civilisation as we know it is breaking down and we're not dealing with life and death issues (but they're still pretty serious and stressful for those involved), but the extent of HMRC's skills shortage is quite a shock.

Rebecca Cave his given us her take on what's happening here:
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/hmrc-help-for-tax-agents...

As one of the site's editors, my only wish is that we had picked up the danger signals a little earlier - the issue needs to be reported, but doing it now feels a bit like shouting into a hurricane.

Good luck with your deadlines and penalty appeals everyone. If there is any hope to look out for, we're also hearing that HMRC is considering some limited concessions on bulk penalty appeals. That news will be posted shortly.

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Replying to John Stokdyk:
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By johnjenkins
20th Jan 2021 10:21

John (no disrespect intended) where have you been for the last few years. HMRC is not fit for purpose nor has it been for many years. I have said this before it is time agents took over the administration of HMRC and leave them to investigate and collect. Most of their operatives have no clue as to what the business and working world is all about.
Paul, like myself has no confidence in HMRC so we do what WE think is correct even if it goes against HMRC rules.

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By Steven Dring
20th Jan 2021 10:32

Just had a £200 CT late filing penalty.
Penalty issued 8th Jan 2021,
Per the penalty, CT return due by the 7th Feb 2021,
CT return actually filed on the 23rd Dec 2020.
Work that one out!

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By vinylnobbynobbs
20th Jan 2021 11:46

We had to file 3 tax returns on paper as HMRC's system would not process them properly if we filed electronically. We duly did this with an appeal (as advised by HMRC) against the penalties - you can guess the rest!

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Replying to vinylnobbynobbs:
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By Wanderer
24th Jan 2021 14:47

Always happens. They have an online system that's not fit for purpose. So rather than put it right they devise a ridiculous manual way of dealing with it. Advisers jump through the hoops and comply with the manual system. HMRC ignores their own procedures, gets the calculations wrong and, to add insult, issues the penalties for filing manually! Result is that adviser has to spend even more time getting HMRC to re-do the calculations, making penalty appeals, explaining to client etc. etc.

Tried it loads of times in the past. Never once has HMRC got it right first time.

Must admit nowadays rather than going through the above charade I occasionally fudge the return entries to give the correct result.

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By CardiffAccountant
21st Jan 2021 22:59

Telephoned employer’s helpdesk with this one. They could not give an explanation and immediately removed the penalties.

Client phones me saying that he had received a late filing penalty.

I go on line and discover late filing penalties for periods ending 5th October & 5th November.

Scheme went live (and application to register scheme also shows) 1st December!

Confirmation letter (advising PAYE number and Accounts Office Ref No) is dated 17th December!!!

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By sammerchant
23rd Jan 2021 13:07

What would be interesting to see is if we all took such idiocies by HMRC to appeal and waited for the FTT, or even the UT if need be, to decide and, hopefully, slag off HMRC just enough to make the media. And perhaps if Jim Harra were mentioned by name, things might improve.

Cloud-cuckoo-land, here I come!

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Replying to sammerchant:
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By johnjenkins
24th Jan 2021 13:41

FTT and UT are not interested in us slagging off HMRC. They only deal in facts and not opinions. They do sometimes take a pragmatic approach. Then again I suppose that "HMRC is not fit for purpose" is now a fact and not an opinion.

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