HMRC still not repaid tax due to my wife & brother

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Filed the full 2021/22 and 2022/23 tax returns again on paper. The trust pages for estate income were attached and a tick shown on SA100 box 6 for trust income. What else can I do? Ask the HMRC to deduct these repayments of the trusts 2023/24 liability? There is also a repayment due on the trust return, done by external accountant, due to instalments being overpaid. The HMRC is so inefficient that their service is diabolical and they want to improve the standards of us agents, what a laugh.

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By DKB-Sheffield
30th Mar 2024 22:04

I hear your plight, as I am sure most of the contributors are also aware of your situation!

FWIW...

Electronic filing - some returns are taking a month or more before refunds are issued.

Electronic amendments - generally take considerably longer

Paper returns - longer still

Paper amendments - I dread to think

However, and whilst I'd be the first in the queue to downcry HMRC's inadequacies... is this the same return that was filed incorrectly, and refiled about a week ago? If so, whilst I agree HMRC are carp, I also don't believe there to be fairies in Cottingley!

Realistically, you have to wait, chase, and if you're not getting anywhere - escalate (HMRC, MP, wave a flag in Parliament Square or College Green whilst shouting 'Stop Harra'... whatever your preference).

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Replying to DKB-Sheffield:
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By Kosher
31st Mar 2024 16:25

Yes it is the same return. Had to file it by paper because HMRC online system does not allow box 6 to be ticked. The trust is being shut down, hopefully before 5 April 2025, and there will be capital gains tax to pay. They, of course, will want their money on time. Thanks for pointing out the problem.

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Replying to Kosher:
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By More unearned luck
02nd Apr 2024 15:52

What trust? Why will there be CGT to pay merely because the trust comes to an end?

I don't think it fair to blame HMRC for your own incompetence. You said (elsewhere) that you filed electronically using HMRC software; You must therefore have omitted the estate income. Not only did you not follow HMRC's instructions for your wife's case (ie to file on paper) but you were not alerted to the fact that the return was wrong when HMRC's computation gave a result that you must have considered to be wrong but nevertheless you pressed submit.

Note if you are claiming a refund for 2021/22 and the paper return was submitted after 31/1/24 then it is invalid. You need to make a claim for a refund instead.

Mrs Kosher may wish to consider changing her accountant.

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Kosher
02nd Apr 2024 16:49

More unearned luck wrote:

What trust? Why will there be CGT to pay merely because the trust comes to an end?

I don't think it fair to blame HMRC for your own incompetence. You said (elsewhere) that you filed electronically using HMRC software; You must therefore have omitted the estate income. Not only did you not follow HMRC's instructions for your wife's case (ie to file on paper) but you were not alerted to the fact that the return was wrong when HMRC's computation gave a result that you must have considered to be wrong but nevertheless you pressed submit.

Note if you are claiming a refund for 2021/22 and the paper return was submitted after 31/1/24 then it is invalid. You need to make a claim for a refund instead.

Mrs Kosher may wish to consider changing her accountant.


LOL I charge zero for doing the return!!! The 2021/22 and 2022/23 tax returns were filed online at the correct times. The trust income was shown on the trust attachment. My brother in law received his refund for 2021/22 last year but my wife's return, with the same trust figures on it, was sent in at the same time and no repayment has been made.

CGT will be due on the trust assets, which are rental properties, when they are sold.

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Replying to Kosher:
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By More unearned luck
02nd Apr 2024 18:30

"...but my wife's return, with the same trust figures on it, was sent in at the same time and no repayment has been made." How can this be so if HMRC's software does not permit the inclusion of trust and estate income on the return in the Cotter sense, ie in the relevant box?

The timely filed returns were wrong. You can correct the TR23 by telling HMRC which boxes need amending and in in what way. I'm not sure that sending a paper copy of the whole return, leaving HMRC to figure out which boxes are different to the electronic version, counts as an amendment. If I was a short-of-staff tax authority I'd be tempted to send the return back to sender and to ask only for the changes. If HMRC did attempt to spot the difference what are their chances of them doing so correctly, especially if you didn't enter in box 2 on TC1 what the refund should be? Did you?

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Apr 2024 19:28

In the old days that was how to amend the return
In writing, only mentioning the items that changed, from and to
And tax needed to be part of it, from and to.

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Kosher
02nd Apr 2024 21:35

Your reply makes me wonder whether you are actually accountant at all. I have done this job for 54 years and know what I am doing. The paper return went in as an amendment to the online return, with all boxes ticked correctly. I think HMRC are under pressure to perform. The firm of accountants, doing the trust return, filed it in January 2024. The tax due less two instalments works out as a refund, it is now April 2024 and still no refund. So are you now saying that the largest accountants office in Lincolnshire are also incompetent?

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Kosher
02nd Apr 2024 23:04

More unearned luck wrote:

What trust? Why will there be CGT to pay merely because the trust comes to an end?

I don't think it fair to blame HMRC for your own incompetence. You said (elsewhere) that you filed electronically using HMRC software; You must therefore have omitted the estate income. Not only did you not follow HMRC's instructions for your wife's case (ie to file on paper) but you were not alerted to the fact that the return was wrong when HMRC's computation gave a result that you must have considered to be wrong but nevertheless you pressed submit.

Note if you are claiming a refund for 2021/22 and the paper return was submitted after 31/1/24 then it is invalid. You need to make a claim for a refund instead.

Mrs Kosher may wish to consider changing her accountant.


Dear Sir, My wife would like you to do her tax return. She expects it done and repayment to be in her bank account within two weeks. The fee she would like is £100, for which she would like remitting to her bank account after you have done the job.
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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Kosher
02nd Apr 2024 23:07

Dear Sir, My wife would like you to do her tax return. She expects it done and repayment to be in her bank account within two weeks. The fee she would like is £100, for which she would like remitting to her bank account after you have done the job.

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Replying to Kosher:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Apr 2024 23:43

You really know how to win friends and influence people.

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By AlgernonB
02nd Apr 2024 13:38

You could try writing to HMRC with copies of the Tax Returns already filed and the supporting R185s, insisting the repayments be made as per claims Follow this up with calls to HMRC (good luck!).

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Replying to AlgernonB:
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By Kosher
02nd Apr 2024 16:52

AlgernonB wrote:

You could try writing to HMRC with copies of the Tax Returns already filed and the supporting R185s, insisting the repayments be made as per claims Follow this up with calls to HMRC (good luck!).


I already have done this
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By Kosher
18th Apr 2024 17:17

Both of their 2022/23 refunds have finally come through, after sending paper returns in to back up the online returns. But my wife has not received her 2021/22 repayment, the online return was done one year earlier than the 2022/23 return and the 2021/22 paper return was sent in same envelope as the 2022/23 return. Just cannot understand what is wrong with HMRC because if you owe them money they are soon on your back.

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By Kosher
18th Apr 2024 17:17

Both of their 2022/23 refunds have finally come through, after sending paper returns in to back up the online returns. But my wife has not received her 2021/22 repayment, the online return was done one year earlier than the 2022/23 return and the 2021/22 paper return was sent in same envelope as the 2022/23 return. Just cannot understand what is wrong with HMRC because if you owe them money they are soon on your back.

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Replying to Kosher:
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By FactChecker
18th Apr 2024 21:43

Not sure what it is that you want to hear from people on here.

But it is, I thought, common knowledge that it is unwise (as in tempting fate, not wrong) to submit two unrelated items within one envelope sent to HMRC.
In practice, those envelopes that reach HMRC (some don't) are initially handled entirely by machine (including opening the envelope and then 'assigning' the contents to the relevant 'work stream' - where of course it may languish for some time awaiting the possibility of being found by a human).
And the automated processes have a particularly bad record of correctly handling two distinct returns - either failing to separate them into separate work streams, or just jettisoning one of them if unsure what to do!

All this is broadly how it has been for at least a decade (longer I think), which doesn't help you - but may give a clue as to what's happened?

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Replying to FactChecker:
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By Kosher
19th Apr 2024 00:49

Yes I can see your point there. But my wife's and brother in law's 2022/23 got acted upon and my wife's 2021/22 wasn't

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Replying to Kosher:
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By More unearned luck
22nd Apr 2024 12:05

My money is on this envelope containing (revised) 2022 and 2023 TRs being received by HMRC after 31/1/24, despite, by current standards, HMRC's unusual alacrity in processing the 2023 form in under 2 1/2 months.

When did you post the envelope? Using what postage level?

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Replying to More unearned luck:
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By Kosher
23rd Apr 2024 10:54

More unearned luck wrote:

My money is on this envelope containing (revised) 2022 and 2023 TRs being received by HMRC after 31/1/24, despite, by current standards, HMRC's unusual alacrity in processing the 2023 form in under 2 1/2 months.

When did you post the envelope? Using what postage level?


The 2022 has now been submitted 3 times online; first time in October 2022 and also three times on paper firstly in January 2023, then in December 2023 and finally in March 2024 all using second class post. The envelope containing the 2023 return also had the 2022 return in it. At no stage were the returns revised, exactly the same figures every time.
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