Share this content
30

HMRC wants CT600 for two week period

Didn't find your answer?

Search AccountingWEB

The company was registered in July 2018. HMRC sent a CT603 asking for returns to be submitted for period 15/07/19 to 31/07/19.

Just a typo on their part or is there something else going on?

Replies (30)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Sep 2019 16:24

I'm guessing there's another notice asking for a return for the year ended 14th July 2019.

Look behind the radiator.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Clinton Lee
23rd Sep 2019 17:09

No, it's not there.

Looked under the sofa as well.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Clinton:
RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Sep 2019 17:11

Look on your client's HMRC account.

I bet it's there.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Wanderer
23rd Sep 2019 16:34

In the case of Period of Account being greater than one year, generally:-

First CT Accounting Period is one year from coming within the charge to CT.
Second CT Accounting Period starts day after the last one ends then ends at Accounting Reference Date.

Guess that your company was registered 16/07/2018 and has a period end of 31/07/2019.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Wanderer:
RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Sep 2019 17:10

Wanderer wrote:

Guess that your company was registered 16/07/2018 and has a period end of 31/07/2019.

I vote 15/7/2018.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Wanderer
23rd Sep 2019 17:13

Agreed!

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Tax Dragon
23rd Sep 2019 16:38

When did the company start trading?

Thanks (0)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
avatar
By Clinton Lee
23rd Sep 2019 17:08

The company started trading immediately on being formed.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Clinton:
avatar
By Tax Dragon
23rd Sep 2019 17:12

Then I agree with the others.

Lost the notice? Have a look at the HMRC gateway.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Accountant A
23rd Sep 2019 17:08

Worth appointing an accountant if you don't have one. Things could get messy otherwise.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Accountant A:
avatar
By Clinton Lee
23rd Sep 2019 17:10

I've already told the owners / directors to do that and they're speaking to a couple of accountants.

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Sep 2019 17:24

Watch those eccentric first year time limits for both HMRC and CoHo.

Thanks (2)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
23rd Sep 2019 17:57

And at cessation.

Just caught a £100 CT600 penalty as company with normal year end 30 November 2018 ceased trading on 24th August 2018, return I December 2017 to 24th August 2018 and then 25th August 2018 to 30 November 2018 both submitted on 26th August 2019.

Frankly I do not care, company sold its only asset, partially repaid its loans from directors/associated companies and will be wound up to create some CGT losses, but really easy to get caught out. They can whistle for the fine, no company bank balance or any assets, just liabilities, but I suppose I should appeal just to wind them up.

Thanks (1)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By Wanderer
23rd Sep 2019 18:35

Yes appeal, likely to be incorrectly applied and HMRC often get this one wrong.
Check (b) below:-

Para 14 Sch 18 FA 98 wrote:
Filing date
14(1)The filing date for a company tax return is the last day of whichever of the following periods is the last to end—
(a)twelve months from the end of the period for which the return is made;

(b)if the company’s relevant period of account is not longer than 18 months, twelve months from the end of that period;

(c)if the company’s relevant period of account is longer than 18 months, 30 months from the beginning of that period;

(d)three months from the date on which the notice requiring the return was served.

(2)In sub-paragraph (1) “relevant period of account” means, in relation to a return for an accounting period, the period of account of the company in which the last day of that accounting period falls.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By Matrix
23rd Sep 2019 19:00

I tend to file for the period covered by the trading activities and don’t pay too much attention to CT603s.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Matrix:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Sep 2019 10:33

Yeah - but you can't file for more than a year and this company's first period of account defaults to 12½ months.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Matrix
24th Sep 2019 18:09

Quite a lot of my start up clients tend to start trading the following month so file a 12 month return and no need to let HMRC know, their systems are updated.

Thanks (1)
avatar
By legerman
24th Sep 2019 12:58

Maybe worth asking HMRC to shorten the first year to 30th June 2019 and ditto for Co House. That way only one CT600 to file, although most tax return software will take into account an extended period if you tell it the dates of both returns.

Thanks (0)
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
24th Sep 2019 18:01

Just to mention, having now done my appea,l here is I believe the relevant section of the 1998 Act.

FA1998 Schedule 18, Part II para 14 (1)(b) and 14(2) ,reproduced below _____________________
14(1)The filing date for a company tax return is the last day of whichever of the following periods is the last to end—
(a)twelve months from the end of the period for which the return is made;
(b)if the company’s relevant period of account is not longer than 18 months, twelve months from the end of that period;
(c)if the company’s relevant period of account is longer than 18 months, 30 months from the beginning of that period;
(d)three months from the date on which the notice requiring the return was served.
(2)In sub-paragraph (1) “relevant period of account” means, in relation to a return for an accounting period, the period of account of the company in which the last day of that accounting period falls.

Thanks (1)
Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Sep 2019 18:13

Tick VG

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
24th Sep 2019 18:44

These days in schools it is more a smiley faces than VG,VG+,VG-, Good+, Good, Good-, Poor or the rarer(for my report cards anyway) Excellent.

My Dad kept all ours (mine and my sisters )and I have a complete set of two a year from primary 1 right up to the end of sixth year. Strange how some things never change, they are commenting about my poor handwriting in primary and similar comments follow me all the way through school, one teacher in S2 or S3 commenting "his work is indescribably untidy" (It got even worse at university, if word processors had not been invented I doubt if anything I now write(by hand) could be read.

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By Wanderer
24th Sep 2019 19:30

DJKL wrote:

Just to mention, having now done my appea,l here is I believe the relevant section of the 1998 Act.

You mean exactly what I posted?
"By Wanderer
23rd Sep 2019 18:35"
Thanks (0)
Replying to Wanderer:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
24th Sep 2019 20:06

Yes- very sorry- I somehow read your post telling me HMRC was wrong but missed the bit of it where you gave me the actual reference.

I accordingly chased around the web earlier today and found the answer and have only now noticed you had already spoonfed me the answer.

All these years ago being told-read the question but in my case they ought to have also been saying , "read the bl**dy answer"

Anyway many thanks, whilst I may not be able to read you did send me on the correct path, much appreciated.

Thanks (1)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By whitevanman
24th Sep 2019 23:06

Responding really to the exchange with Wanderer, I don't wish to appear to defend HMRC. Only their computer system!
It's the perennial problem of "sh*t in, sh*t out".
Penalties are produced automatically, by the computer system and will invariably be correct, based on the information that has been input.
The problem in situations such as yours, is usually down to one of two things.
Either HMRC are told that trading ceased on date xxxx and thereafter the company was dormant or (more often I suspect) the person recording the new return period dates, fails to also override the filing date that the system automatically sets.
We all know it should not happen (and would not in an ideal world) but I sometimes feel that simply appealing isn't the answer. A complaint to the head of the relevant part of HMRC, pointing out the time and cost wasted by their failure to properly train staff or ensure work instructions correctly identify the issues, would be more likely to cause some (eventual) improvement and might result in comments such as Wanderers "HMRC usually get this wrong.." becoming a thing of the past. Are we still in Kansas?

Thanks (0)
Replying to whitevanman:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
25th Sep 2019 00:38

I actually tried phoning HMRC twice to chat with them but both times got cut off so ended up with the formal written appeal- whilst this one was not a client but an entity of which I am an office bearer via my employment, am I glad come 30th September that is me out of practice work forever.

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By whitevanman
25th Sep 2019 06:48

And there is another thing to complain of.
The formal appeal is necessary ( or you will never be rid of the penalty, assuming it is wrong) but they should be able to take a phone call. I don't suggest complaining as an alternative nor as a tactic. It is just that, if people do not formally complain of these things, no-one within HMRC will do anything to improve things over which they have control. They don't count the number of successful appeals but do count the number of complaints upheld.
As to 30 September, are you sure? I don't doubt that the escape committee have said they will honour your vote to leave, but do you have a withdrawal agreement? Does it have a backstop.....Oh dear where are the dried frog pills!!

Thanks (0)
Replying to whitevanman:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
25th Sep 2019 10:37

I have crossed the Rubicon and already advised my ML supervisors and PII providers, all clients are now gone (just a couple of small fees still to issue), client files are cleared from the home office and all are now safely stored, so yes, " They Have Their Exits".

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
avatar
By whitevanman
25th Sep 2019 21:16

Sorry for the late reply. Hard day on the golf course!
Congratulations. Sounds like you were better prepared and certainly more effective, than the Brexit team.
Now you can just sit back and choose which of the questions on Aweb deserve your considered input (if any).
Good luck.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Matrix
25th Sep 2019 07:16

You can call up. They then reset the periods and the fines get cancelled. Provided you then submit CT600s for the exact periods. I did this for a client (who ended up paying me more than £100 to refile the CT600 for the correct dates but hey ho).

Thanks (0)
Morph
By kevinringer
25th Sep 2019 13:24

First CT return should be from the commencement of trading to the end of the first accounting period but will be no more than 365 days so if the first period is more than 365 days you'll need one for the first 365 days and another for the x days to the end of the first period.

HMRC will assume the company started trading on the day it was formed. If this is not the case then phone HMRC and they will change the CT periods.

Thanks (1)
Share this content