HMRC's response

Annual payroll director processed post 19 March

Didn't find your answer?

My 48 hours time call was returned today by HMRC. 

My query was how to handle annual Director's payroll processed after 19 March. 

The response was HMRC currently do not know how to handle annual Director payrolls processed after 19 March. They are awaiting guidance. Further, the person in question was not able to say the likely date this will be sorted.

Is this the case? What response did you get? 

Thanks

Replies (13)

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By Paula@Butt
23rd Apr 2020 14:34

Just out of interest, was the director on an RTI submission for 2018/19?

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Replying to Paula@Butt:
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By FirstTab
23rd Apr 2020 14:39

Yes all the directors were on RTI for 2018/19.

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By Paula@Butt
23rd Apr 2020 15:13

The official guidance says:
You can only claim for furloughed employees that were on your PAYE payroll on or before 19 March 2020
and which were notified to HMRC on an RTI submission on or before 19 March 2020.This means an RTI
submission notifying payment in respect of that employee to HMRC must have been made on or before 19
March 2020.
It doesn't specify that the RTI submission has to be in 2019/20, so I would interpret that as an annual payroll that is not submitted until 2019/20 does not exclude the company from making a claim.

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Replying to Paula@Butt:
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By Wanderer
23rd Apr 2020 17:38

But a payment has had to be to be made for 2019/2020 and reported under RTI as per the regulations I've quoted further down this thread.
As often, with HMRC, the guidance is dumbed down, one has to read the law.

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By becky2000
23rd Apr 2020 16:05

The ICAEW released this statement in a tax faculty update yesterday:

The HMRC CJRS portal is rejecting claims from some annual payrolls. The legislation - paragraph 5(a)(i) of the direction - makes it clear that claims must relate to an employee to whom the employer has made a payment of earnings in the tax year 2019/20 that was made before 19 March 2020. This issue has been raised with HMRC, but it would appear that the system is working in accordance with the legislation and the annual payment must have been included in an RTI report filed by 19 March 2020.

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Replying to becky2000:
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By Paula@Butt
23rd Apr 2020 16:15

Oh B****! That's what comes of relying on HMRC guidance. Thank you Becky. That does seem unfair to those on annual payrolls though

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Replying to Paula@Butt:
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By becky2000
23rd Apr 2020 16:22

Tell me about it! A few days ago I emailed all our annual PAYE scheme clients to see if anyone is going to be furloughed so we could claim under CJRS etc but luckily i stated that we are still assessing everyoneS eligibility due to constantly updated guidance etc from HMRC

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By FirstTab
23rd Apr 2020 16:27

Thanks for the update. This will be a challenge explaining it to clients.

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Replying to becky2000:
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By Gone Sailing
23rd Apr 2020 17:27

Are you quoating verbatim?
I understood that RTI filing had to be done by 19/3/20, but that would include no payment EPSs, not necessarily paid salaries.

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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By Wanderer
23rd Apr 2020 17:31

Gone Sailing wrote:

Are you quoating verbatim?
I understood that RTI filing had to be done by 19/3/20, but that would include no payment EPSs, not necessarily paid salaries.

Rishi wrote:

5. The costs of employment in respect of which an employer may make a claim for payment under CJRS are costs which-
(a) relate to an employee-
(i) to whom the employer made a payment of earnings in the tax year
2019-20 which is shown in a return under Schedule A1 to the PAYE
Regulations that is made on or before a day that is a relevant CJRS
day,
(ii) in relation to whom the employer has not reported a date of
cessation of employment on or before that date, and
(iii) who is a furloughed employee (see paragraph 6), and
(b) meet the relevant conditions in paragraphs 7.1 to 7.15 in relation to the furloughed employee.
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Replying to Gone Sailing:
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By Wanderer
23rd Apr 2020 17:33

Rishi wrote:
13.1 For the purposes of CJRS-
(a) a day is a relevant CJRS day if that day is-
(i) 28 February 2020, or
(ii) 19 March 2020.
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By JHC
25th Apr 2020 13:39

I also had a 48 hour call back (from Monday) Friday morning at 8am, sadly I missed it and she's yet to call back as per message. We have had one annual Director payroll go through though. Need to check if payment received as understand some of the early claims have now received payment

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By FirstTab
28th Apr 2020 10:15

Hello

I had two calls from HMRC on this issue, since I asked to escalate the matter further up.

The position for annual payrolls directors where, RTI has been submitted after 19 March, is they are NOT eligible for furlough. I asked for a website link. I was informed it was an internal guidance and guidance for the public will be released soon.

I have not yet informed our directors on this issue. I will later on today. It will not be an easy email to draft.

If your experience on this issue is different, can you please share? How did your directors take it?

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