Hi,
I had a litter of pups in 2018 and a bit confused as to whether i need to pay tax. Hmrc not that helpful as they aren't sure themselves. I breed rarely, this is my 2nd litter ever.
I need to know what exactly can i claim for as i am not a business. Can i claim for loss of income? Can i claim for all her keep leading up to her delivery? How far back can i go as not claimed against her. I do campaign my dogs so needed to know whether costs relating to that can be claimed?
Any help would be helpful as i have spoken to an accountant but they aren't sure either and not sure i should be submitting anything as it is a loss anyway need to have these questions answered.
Thanks
Replies (38)
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You have a loss only because you are including private expenditure which is not deductible for tax.
What do you actually do for a living? By the sound of it, it's not breeding dogs.
I didn't have the litter to make money it was to keep one to continue to campaign.
So, a private purpose.
As I said, you have a loss only because you are including private expenditure which is not deductible for tax.
How much did you sell the other pups for?
Have you looked at The Kennel Clubs website with regard to HMRC badges of trade with regard to dog breeding. How do these apply to your situation? You describe it as a hobby and you made a loss. Why are you completing a SA have HMRC asked you to complete a SA because you sold a litter of pups?
I would go along with what others have said based on what you say its a hobby - with the proviso that it would depend on what you sold the pups for and what your legitimate expenses were. I used to act for someone who was self employed and as a hobby showed dogs but he very occasionally bred pups/got stud fees or a % of the sale of pups in place of stud fees. His dogs were first and foremost family pets so what he could claim was limited by this. He made a profit after expenses and declared as it on his tax return. The pups were sold for around £2k each so high value. That is why I referred you to badges of trade. Another client bred and trained gun dogs as well as being self employed and again high value for a trained dog, not so much with pups so there was a smaller profit margin because of the mix.
I vote not a trade. Rien à déclarer. Ring HMRC and ask them to withdraw the notice to file and remove you from SA.
I'd just white space it (box 19 on TR 7 if memory serves). It's not sounding taxable and similarly no loss is allowable.
Had you sold for under £1000 and not already been self employed, I'd have said leave it off altogether (hence my earlier questions).
On the other hand, because you are already self employed, you ought to have thought about VAT.
It's always been generally accepted that 2 or more litters of puppies a year constitutes a business.
Generally accepted by whom? DEFRA say 3 or more.
Can you provide a link, because DEFRA themselves say that their guidance is based on HMRC’s ‘rules’.
So, as per usual, you have nothing to back up your claims and are making it up as you go.
Moderators - I think we need some air freshener.
"I had a litter of pups in 2018 and a bit confused as to whether i need to pay tax. Hmrc not that helpful as they aren't sure themselves. I breed rarely, this is my 2nd litter ever."
Jeez - I thought it was the dog posting a query.
No one has been rude to you as far as I can see quite the opposite. People have tried to help with the limited info we have.
And, in at least one case, already said.
I had already cast my vote in favour of not taxable.
Still, it's winter. There are likely to be snowflakes around.
They are KC reg, parents and the litter were. I show my dogs.
Price of pups is nothing like some breeds go for so not anywhere in the region of £2k
How about saying what the price was instead of what it wasn't?
I think we can take it that the poster wanted a reply telling them it was a hobby rather than a trade based on the scant information provided. No wonder the accountant they consulted wasn't sure. Our work is done.
I have friends who have just acquired a pooch - a Shitsue (at least that's what it does around the house). It's 'Ruff' on them as they have no grandchildren, so 'Rover' is a substitute. I think they are barking mad and should paws for breath but the animal does have Pedigree....
Chum.
Should they inform the HMRC?
Answers on a post card to: Collie-ers Row, Ridgeback St, Barking, Newfoundland.
Is it just a coincidence that a very similar question has been asked on another forum?
Or a case of if you dont get the answer you want ask ask ask again until you do.
Does the missing information appear in the other forum, or are the contributors there being left to guess too?
I didn't see how the breed or the amount the pups were sold for had any baring on this.
Well a one-off transaction in the nature of a trade is taxable as a trade. The more commercial you were as you went about selling, the more likely it is that the transactions were trading ones and hence that the profit is taxable - or loss allowable. The price fetched might be a factor in establishing the commerciality or otherwise of your approach. Other factors are likely more important, but I wouldn't have asked the question if I hadn't thought it might have some relevance. I have better ways to waste my time.
Thanks though for the replies.
No worries. (No, seriously, please don't worry... this is my last.)
If i had Labradors and priced at £1k a pup how would that make any difference to say a Boxer sold at £1200 a pup? Or a Cocker sold at £900 a pup?
There's a lot of mugs about.
No pedigree dog owner has ever read the story of The Emperor's New Clothes, it seems.
Offered as possibly relevant
Interestingly (?) I was told by an HMRC senior Inspector that if you bred a horse and then sold it you were liable for tax but not if you bought a horse and sold it
His words not mine and I didn't argue as it suited my position