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# How do you calculate days?

How do you calculate days?

• ### Is a burger van eligible for capital allowances?

I know banks say Monday to Thursday is 4 days but what is one day? If somebody wants to borrow something for 4 days is that Monday to Thursday? Is 3 days Monday to Wednesday? Is 2 days Monday to Tuesday? Is 1 day Monday only or Monday to Tuesday? I know it's easier to work out if people talk in hours but I don't think that's relevant if they are talking in days.

### Replies

22nd Feb 2013 13:18

To convert days...

... into hours, you need to multiply by 3 (difficult bit over), then by 2, then by 2 again, and once again by 2.

If I'm borrowing something at 2pm today for two days, then it's due back by 2pm the day after tomorrow.

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to tom123
22nd Feb 2013 13:25

Specifically

George Attazder wrote:

... into hours, you need to multiply by 3 (difficult bit over), then by 2, then by 2 again, and once again by 2.

If I'm borrowing something at 2pm today for two days, then it's due back by 2pm the day after tomorrow.

What about specifically if a loan can be a maximum of 93 days and it starts on the morning of 23/02/13?

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22nd Feb 2013 13:31

Its obvious when you think about it

George I think your calculation works unless it is a weekend

If the days straddled a Saturday then you have to multiply your answer by 3.14 because we always have pie on Saturday.

However if it also goes over a Sunday you should divide by 3.14 because we never have a pie on Sundays

Its obvious when you think about it

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22nd Feb 2013 13:35

Ahhh ...

... but are we talking weekdays, or working days?

I guess it's working days when waiting for something from the banks (like cheque clearance) and the first day doesn't count, but weekdays when they are charging for something, and the first day will count.

So if they say clearance in 4 days, for a cheque paid in Monday, expect it be cleared Friday.

If you go overdrawn on Monday, and clear it the following Monday, you have 8 days overdrawn.

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22nd Feb 2013 13:37

any day

including saturday and sunday and bank holidays

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22nd Feb 2013 13:40

not as straightforward as you would think

for example, if I hire equipment for one day, it costs me £100 + VAT.

However, if I hire the same equipment for a week it costs me £500 + VAT for the week.

Therefore, to convert days into weeks, you have to multiply by 5, and not by 7 which is the widespread belief.

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22nd Feb 2013 13:41

One day

Ends the same time tomorrow. I like a roast dinner on a Sunday.

It's a period of 3 x 2 x 2 x 2 hours, subject to the +/- 3.14 adjustment.

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to JKnight
22nd Feb 2013 13:52

That's my view except ...

George Attazder wrote:

Ends the same time tomorrow. I like a roast dinner on a Sunday.

It's a period of 3 x 2 x 2 x 2 hours, subject to the +/- 3.14 adjustment.

They should say 24 hours rather than one day. Once they talk days it get a little vague.

The background to the question is the signing on loan of George Boyd by Hull City. The first match he is needed for is on saturday 23/02/13 at 3 pm and he has to be registered by 12 noon on saturday.

The maximum loan period is 93 days.

If saturday 23/02/13 to sunday 24/02/13 is one day then the 93rd day is the play off final day on 27/05/13. The match starts at 3 pm but the loan period usually ends at midnight.

If saturday 23/02/13 to 23/02/13 is one day then the 93rd day is 26/05/13 and he would miss the final.

Hopefully we will go up automatically and it won't be relevant!

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By Old Greying Accountant
22nd Feb 2013 14:05

They'll drop straight back down again ....

... so why worry?

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22nd Feb 2013 14:12

If a daily hire period...

... ends at midnight on the last day, must it not then follow that it starts immediately after midnight on the first day?

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to TomHerbert
22nd Feb 2013 14:42

No

George Attazder wrote:

... ends at midnight on the last day, must it not then follow that it starts immediately after midnight on the first day?

Because it can't start before it was agreed.

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22nd Feb 2013 14:25

There's Steve Bruce

and not Phil Brown as manager so he wont get big headed. Anyway we survived the first season. Don't you remember Phil Brown's serenade?

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22nd Feb 2013 14:44

Clear as . . .

There is a section in the Companies Act 2006 which makes everything clear.

(1)  This section applies for the purposes of calculating the period for filing a company's accounts and reports which is expressed as a specified number of months from a specified date or after the end of a specified previous period.

(2) Subject to the following provisions, the period ends with the date in the appropriate month corresponding to the specified date or the last day of the specified previous period.

(3) If the specified date, or the last day of the specified previous period, is the last day of a month, the period ends with the last day of the appropriate month (whether or not that is the corresponding date).

(4) If—
(a) the specified date, or the last day of the specified previous period, is not the last day of a month but is the 29th or 30th, and
(b) the appropriate month is February,
the period ends with the last day of February.

(5) “The appropriate month” means the month that is the specified number of months after the month in which the specified date, or the end of the specified previous period, falls.

So, thank you Sir Humphrey!

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By Old Greying Accountant
22nd Feb 2013 15:26

First ...

... to be precise you need to define "day"

Ther are two meanings, if you were so inclined you could take day as from the first glipmse of sun to the last, therefore each sunset would define the end of each day. in terms or hours these would be variable.

Unfortunately, registration would be before noon on 23/02/13, which would be before sundown, so that would count as a day.

To be serious, I would expect it to be specifically defined in the rules, but, having read now them it is not as far as I could see.. As transfer windows are from midnight to midnight I would interpret a day or part thereof to count as a whole day, and so the 93 days ends on midnight, 26/05/13. At best, if done as 2232 hours this would end mid-day 27/05/13 because of the 3 hours before first match rule (this is generally the rule car hire companies use).

Apparently though, there is talk of the loan breaking for the international break and then restarting again, which if the FL accept it is not then a problem - as long as the two loan periods don't exceed 93 days..

Now, if this were a leap year..!

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22nd Feb 2013 15:55

When is midnight ?

Midnight used to be 12 pm when I was a lad and came at the end of the day.

Now midnight is generally accepted to be 12 am so it must be in the morning.  So if I have to do something by midnight on Friday, I can't do it on Friday any more, because midnight is now at the beginning of the day.

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22nd Feb 2013 16:04

12pm...

... is and always has been midday.

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to chatman
22nd Feb 2013 16:15

12 pm

No that's nonsense.  It came after 11 pm (not rocket science) until about 1980.  Then lazy computer programmers swapped it with 12 am.

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By Old Greying Accountant
to Portia Nina Levin
22nd Feb 2013 16:52

Disagree ...

... with both.

it is midnight and midday (or noon)

noon = meridian

AM = anti meridian

PM = post meridian

therefore midday is meridian, and therefore can neither be am or pm, and midnight can be either, depending which meridian you refer to!

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to Busy bookkeeper
22nd Feb 2013 17:48

Not quite

Old Greying Accountant wrote:

AM = anti meridian

As all Latin scholars will know it is ante meridian - ante = before, just as post = after

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By Old Greying Accountant
to carnmores
22nd Feb 2013 18:21

Yes, but I just ...

andy.partridge wrote:

Old Greying Accountant wrote:

AM = anti meridian

As all Latin scholars will know it is ante meridian - ante = before, just as post = after

... hate it, infernal meridian wreaking confusion wherever it goes!

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22nd Feb 2013 16:52

Yes OGA

It is neither, but only very briefly. 12:00:00.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 in the afternoon is post-meridian!

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By Old Greying Accountant
22nd Feb 2013 16:57

@ George ...

... exactly. (was expanding whilst you were responding)

I use midday or midnight, but to avoid doubt and save ink, easier to say 12:00 and 00:00 (or unconventional, but could validly use 24:00)

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By JC
22nd Feb 2013 17:19
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22nd Feb 2013 18:16

Hmmm

Well, the two issues for me are

Has 12 pm always been midnight ?  (No)

and

Can I complete that task on Friday or is it too late ?  Because the logical consequence of midhight being 12 am is that midnight Friday is at the beginning of the day - something that few would consider to be correct.

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22nd Feb 2013 18:27

zero dark thirty

that'll do   ZERO hour

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22nd Feb 2013 18:30

I thought things were often scheduled to happen at 00:01 hours to avoid the problem of (literally) not knowing what day it is!

David

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By Old Greying Accountant
22nd Feb 2013 18:47

At the end of the day ...

... (no pun intended) you should all be in bed so it doesn't matter :o)

As the old saying goes, a minutes sleep before midnight is worth an hour after!

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