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How many trivial payments can I make to emplees PA

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How many trivial payments of £50 and under can I make yo employees per year from a partnership?

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By williams lester accountants
30th Nov 2021 17:17

Have you asked your accountant?

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RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Nov 2021 17:17

None. They can't be money.

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By [email protected]
30th Nov 2021 17:24

the only info I can find are £300 per Director per year not employee. Can anyone help please?

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By Wanderer
30th Nov 2021 17:25

As many as you like. Just ensure you operate PAYE on them.

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By [email protected]
30th Nov 2021 17:27

if they are vouchers for under £50 per voucher, can you give 4 per person for Christmas?

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By Leywood
30th Nov 2021 17:36

You appear to be ignoring the above comments.

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By lionofludesch
30th Nov 2021 17:39

julieharrison01-AT-hotmail.com wrote:

if they are vouchers for under £50 per voucher, can you give 4 per person for Christmas?

No, because that's one occasion. One occasion, one trivial benefit.

In theory, you can give millions provided you have the imagination to think up millions of plausible non-work related reasons for giving a voucher. In practice, it's hard to come up with more than a handful.

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ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
30th Nov 2021 17:54

julieharrison01-AT-hotmail.com wrote:

if they are vouchers for under £50 per voucher, can you give 4 per person for Christmas?

You could give 4 vouchers AT Christmas, FOR, say, Christmas, Easter, Birthday, Halloween

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Replying to atleastisoundknowledgable...:
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By lionofludesch
30th Nov 2021 18:06

atleastisoundknowledgable... wrote:

julieharrison01-AT-hotmail.com wrote:

if they are vouchers for under £50 per voucher, can you give 4 per person for Christmas?

You could give 4 vouchers AT Christmas, FOR, say, Christmas, Easter, Birthday, Halloween

I said "plausible", Alisk.

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ALISK
By atleastisoundknowledgable...
01st Dec 2021 10:08

Christmas, Easter, birthday, Wedding Anniversary, Partner's birthday, New Year, Ramadan ...

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By Tax Dragon
01st Dec 2021 11:00

Fallacy, fallacy, fallacy.

Why do you need seven anyway?

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By Paul Crowley
30th Nov 2021 20:18

No
one voucher (not redeemable for cash) per person, one voucher at a time

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By petercooperuk
30th Nov 2021 21:40

If it's to an employee who is not a director and the trivial benefit is of £50 value or less and it isn’t cash or a cash voucher and it isn’t a reward for their work or performance and it isn’t in the terms of their contract, then you can dole them out as much as you like. See https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-benefits-trivial-benefits

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By Hugo Fair
30th Nov 2021 22:03

For more detailed guidance start at https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employment-income-manual/eim21864 ... and continue to follow relevant links.
N.B: the p.a. cap for Directors is to prevent those who are making the decisions from awarding gifts to themselves without limit.
Note: the £50 limit per gift is absolute (if it costs 1p more then ALL of it is taxable).

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By Tax Dragon
01st Dec 2021 10:24

OP has an interesting point though. The £300 limit applies to an employee who is a member of the family or household of a director (s323A(2)(b)(ii)). What about if the employee is a relative of one of the partners in a partnership?

Over to lion and ALISK to come up with a plausible reason why there was no need to include such a cap for such a situation.

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By Tax Dragon
01st Dec 2021 08:42

Don't worry, the whole 'plausible reason' thing is just one of those Aweb fallacies that has grown with time. Read the legislation, read the introductory document that Peter linked to, read the much more dependable guidance Hugo pointed to, you won't find any such requirement.

HMRC expects taxpayers and accountants to take an honest, realistic view. The exchange between ALISK and lion suggests that accountants sometimes struggle with the concepts of honesty and reality.

Or maybe it's the idea of giving something for nothing - which basically is the thesis behind the trivial benefits exemption - that really confuses accountants. You can almost hear them think "something for nothing? Something for nothing?! Does not compute"... and maybe the whole plausible reason myth grew out of that confusion.

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By lionofludesch
01st Dec 2021 08:54

Tax Dragon wrote:

Don't worry, the whole 'plausible reason' thing is just one of those Aweb fallacies that has grown with time. Read the legislation, read the introductory document that Peter linked to, read the much more dependable guidance Hugo pointed to, you won't find any such requirement.

HMRC expects taxpayers and accountants to take an honest, realistic view. The exchange between ALISK and lion suggests that accountants sometimes struggle with the concepts of honesty and reality.

Or maybe it's the idea of giving something for nothing - which basically is the thesis behind the trivial benefits exemption - that really confuses accountants. You can almost hear them think "something for nothing? Something for nothing?! Does not compute"... and maybe the whole plausible reason myth grew out of that confusion.

You're right.

Plausible was the wrong word.

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By Tax Dragon
01st Dec 2021 09:28

Quote my spiel back at me substituting your preferred adjective if you like.

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By lionofludesch
01st Dec 2021 14:50

Tax Dragon wrote:

Quote my spiel back at me substituting your preferred adjective if you like.

The whole trivial benefits thing is a monster entirely of HMRC's making. We used to have a system which was, on the whole, self-policed fairly. Then along comes some lunatic from the P11d Stasi and assesses a company for a five figure sum on cups of tea (maybe coffee) at folks' desks. HMRC back off and later try to codify it all in the trivial benefits rules.

Pardon me if I suggest that it was asking for trouble and a bit of common sense in reviewing this ridiculous tax charge before issue (prior to binning it and issuing a P45 to the officer who drafted it) might well have been a better policy.

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By Tax Dragon
01st Dec 2021 15:32

So pardoned.

It's part of the wider drive for fairness, lion. Problem with individual discretion is that different individuals have different views on what's right. Codify it and - the theory goes - everyone gets treated the same. And the Stasi are kept at bay.

Re the profession's oh-look-a-loophole response (.oO entirely of HMRC's making? Really?), one irony is that, by ramming right up to the £300 limit with allegedly tax-free vouchers, there is no scope left for the genuine trivial benefits that the measure was supposed to protect; other ironies are available.

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By lionofludesch
01st Dec 2021 17:10

Tax Dragon wrote:
...... one irony is that, by ramming right up to the £300 limit with allegedly tax-free vouchers, there is no scope left for the genuine trivial benefits that the measure was supposed to protect; other ironies are available.

[chuckle]

Like the cups of tea ?

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By Dib
01st Dec 2021 13:24

"You can almost hear them think "something for nothing? Something for nothing?!" [Insert Dalek voice] "Does not compute, does not compute"! before spinning round in a circle, setting the laser printer to full power and exterminating themselves. ;o)

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By HarryB
01st Dec 2021 13:31

We hope to be thought of as nice, generous employers, so we give £50 vouchers at random times of the year - just as a surprise.

Gift - 'a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.'

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