How much to pay my new ACCA recruit?

How much to pay my new ACCA recruit?

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I am recruiting my first staff member - a fully qualified ACCA with around 15 years experience in the accounting departments of two large financial services firms. She has no practice or tax experience but is keen to learn. I am contemplating a two year training contract and paying for her to study ATT which she will do in her own time. She will work part time flexible hours on my clients / practice admin - how much she works will depend on her availability / studying, and on my workload.

Please can anyone advise on what might be a fair hourly rate to offer, even a range would help, I have very little idea where to start.

Replies (18)

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By Maslins
07th Aug 2014 15:01

What she's "worth" will

What she's "worth" will depend upon countless things.

I personally would suggest given her lack of practice/tax experience, you pay her no/negligibly more than a newly qualified would get.

You can get average salaries from various places online.  I might be slightly out of touch, but I'd say broadly £40-50k in London, £30-40k elsewhere.  You can potentially get an hourly figure from that, but it'll be something like £20/hour ball park.

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By Kirkers
07th Aug 2014 15:40

Wow

Maslins wrote:

What she's "worth" will depend upon countless things.

I personally would suggest given her lack of practice/tax experience, you pay her no/negligibly more than a newly qualified would get.

You can get average salaries from various places online.  I might be slightly out of touch, but I'd say broadly £40-50k in London, £30-40k elsewhere.  You can potentially get an hourly figure from that, but it'll be something like £20/hour ball park.

A newly qualified ACCA wouldn't get close to 30-40k where I am.

You're probably talking £25k tops, here, with no practice experience.

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By Gem7321
07th Aug 2014 15:44

With no practice experience I would be expecting £20-25k.

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By Kirkers
07th Aug 2014 15:47

And even then.. if she's only part time I don't think she'd fetch 25k. 

Part time, newly qualified with no practice experience I'd probably expect to see maybe 18-20k at a push for say 25 hours. Depending on what you'd constitute part time hours. 

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By User deleted
07th Aug 2014 15:48

The fact that they have no practice experience is the issue.

 

A newly qualified with 5-6 years practice experience [should] get minimum £32-35k

 

However, that is assuming they don't need any further (other than CPD) training.

The ATT course will cost you. I don't know how much - say £1,000 per year/module

That would be the equivalent of £879 pre ERs NIC.

 

The biggest issue is the fact that they may need a level of hand-holding until they find their feet in the practice - That is where the time and cost will be spent.

 

I would have said £24-26k

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By Maslins
07th Aug 2014 15:48

I'm in the South East.  I appreciate geography will make a difference, but didn't want to offend Northerners! ;-)

Newly qualified in Southampton ~7 years ago was £32k with mid tier firm.  I then went to London and got £44k (5-6 years ago).

I don't think there's been much wage inflation in the last 5 years, but the above is what I was going on.  Maybe I'm particularly awesome, who knows...

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By Kirkers
07th Aug 2014 15:50

Looks like my county is quite unfair then haha.

Like I said though, depends what you'd consider part time hours.

25-30 I'd say 20k.

16-24 maybe 17-19k.

All depends on your area - mine is known to have particularly low wages for newly qualifieds!

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By User deleted
07th Aug 2014 16:03

Do tell Kirkers

Do tell, where are you based?

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By Roland195
07th Aug 2014 16:04

What do you feel this person is bringing to the table?

It seems to me that you are effectively paying a relatively high wage to someone who may be ACCA qualified and with 15 years experience but in the wrong area. Some skills may be transferable but I would imagine that knowledge overlap between large financial services company and your practice dealing with owner managed SMEs is not extensive. 

On a part time basis and with at least some of her time being devoted to admin, I can't see how you expect this to pay off.   

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By B Roberts
07th Aug 2014 16:10

Who is the new recruit ?
I am assuming that they are a friend / relative ?

And also, what are their circumstances that have resulted in moving from long term full time employment to part time self employment in an area that they have no experience ?

eg. is it your niece who is looking for a career change following maternity leave ?

Otherwise how / why have you recruited them - they would not accept a job where the salary was unknown, and I would have thought that you would not have made a job offer without knowing their salary expectations ?

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By lme
07th Aug 2014 18:18

Thanks - and more info

Thank you all, really helpful. I am based in rural North Yorkshire. I had £20ph in mind, maybe it is about right.

I met the person I am recruiting through sharing a hobby, as it happens we both worked at the same company (though not together) for some years. She did well there and had a good reputation. I think we will work well together.

I made the leap from big corporate / Big 4 background 4 years ago, to do my CTA and set up my own small practice. It has been a huge learning curve but I now feel confident and have a small portfolio of happy clients. My new colleague had a bad experience after returning to full time work following maternity leave and approached me for advice about consulting / joining a small firm / setting up her own book keeping practice. After a lengthy discussion it seemed like working together might be best for both of us. I am now confident in my practice and can share my experience as she builds hers, and I can switch my focus to developing her / reviewing her work and bringing in more business. In the longer term if it works, I would hope to keep her and if it doesn't, I imagine she will leave to set up on her own.

She is keen to gain experience and is bright and I know enough about her to be confident in bringing her in and she loves the idea of studying tax(!).

She fully understands that my ability to pay her depends on me getting more work in, and she is happy to take flexible hours on that basis. As am I to switch my focus to growing the business.

 

 

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Replying to DJKL:
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By Maslins
08th Aug 2014 09:26

Be a bit careful

lme wrote:

In the longer term if it works, I would hope to keep her and if it doesn't, I imagine she will leave to set up on her own.

Not trying to sound doom and gloom, but be a bit careful that she doesn't spend a couple of years picking your brains and getting to know your clients, then set up on her own, writing to all your clients to say she'll do the same job but undercutting you by X%.  Seen it happen, and sadly "anti competition" clauses seem to be worth naff all, as you'd need to spend thousands on solicitor fees often to achieve nothing.

Also, with an hourly rate, what if she takes absolutely ages to do a job?  There's not much incentive for her to do things quickly if taking longer means she gets paid more.

This of course doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it, but be careful how much info you share.

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By marks
07th Aug 2014 18:59

I am taking on my first employee next month.

Full time, AAT qualified, 7 years accounts/tax experience in a medium CA firm in my area.

Just starting their ACCA training which will be paying for via distance learning and first sitting of each exam.

Comes highly recommended from office manager from previous employer (where I used to work) who said that "he can do any job that comes in without any guidance".

Salary is £17,200 (which is significantly more than what he was on).

Sounds like I am gettting a bargain at about £10.60 an hour.

Based in Central Scotland.

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By JimH
07th Aug 2014 22:17

@Ime re rates for an asset to your practice
I'm with the OP and Maslins, coming over from big 4 to small practice over 10 years ago @ £22 per hour (South East) with no small practice experience. Not sure why there is such a protective view of 'relevant experience' over intelligence and transferable skills on the web, other than they've never seen what you have. What 'hand-holding'? The OP is not proposing to pay peanuts and get a monkey. This employee can apply knowledge, study manuals and AccountingWeb!

I agree, if you've found an intelligent person with proven track record elsewhere, pay her true worth so she enjoys her value and speaks well of your practice. If she's any good, you'll not be spending much time reviewing a few months down the line. Plus she will soon bring in business too even if that's not your current primary objective at the moment. And, if you did have doubts, you'd cover it with a mutually agreed probationary period?

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By FCExtraordinaire
08th Aug 2014 09:04

£20

I would say £20 per hour on the basis of maybe £25 if she had the practice experience.   What you don't want to do is pay her too little so she thinks its not worth it being a joint thing.

 

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By Roland195
08th Aug 2014 16:21

The value of experience

Compare how much useful knowledge you use in day to day practice comes from training/experience/CPD courses over your professional qualification/academics.

That is why we have a "protective view" over relevant experience - it is simply more valuable in a practice setting. Not matter how good they are, they simply cannot absorb the knowledge, tricks, nuances & wheezes of 10 plus years at the coal face that make us effective at our job, in a short time.

 

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Replying to stepurhan:
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By Maslins
08th Aug 2014 16:46

Horses for courses

Roland195 wrote:

That is why we have a "protective view" over relevant experience - it is simply more valuable in a practice setting. Not matter how good they are, they simply cannot absorb the knowledge, tricks, nuances & wheezes of 10 plus years at the coal face that make us effective at our job, in a short time.

The counter argument to that, is that they'll also have 10+ years of bad habits they'll have picked up and 10+ years of "I do it this way, I don't want to do it that way despite you preferring it".

Newly qualified accountants are popular with big firms because they've proved a basic level of intelligence and competence across a broad range of accountancy theory, but are still very malleable.

I agree that in a small practice, there won't be that many people around to teach the newbie, so someone who can hit the ground running is probably more important in a smaller practice than a bigger one.

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