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Hybrid working how does leave work

Hybrid working how does leave work

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A hot topic at the moment seems to be Hybrid working where some hours are worked at home and others in the office. It does bring an additional level of complication to holidays / leave as employees are able to determine how many hours they work and when. In my thnking a 25 day annual allowance could easilly end up as 8 weeks off instead of 5!!  Before the "Yes" button is pushed and the world decends into total chaos I am wondering how others are going to approach this or if there are any other additional complications to Hybrid working I have yet to consider?

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By sarahg
23rd Apr 2021 10:34

I'm not sure I follow - why could it end up as 8?

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By kestrepo
23rd Apr 2021 10:50

Perhaps a bit extreme but an employee could work a 40 hour week in 3 days and have 4 days not working but not on holiday. Say a standard 25 days leave would normally be 5 weeks but 25/3 = more than 8 weeks!

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By Duggimon
23rd Apr 2021 11:10

kestrepo wrote:

Perhaps a bit extreme but an employee could work a 40 hour week in 3 days and have 4 days not working but not on holiday. Say a standard 25 days leave would normally be 5 weeks but 25/3 = more than 8 weeks!

You're mad if you let your employees decide for themselves how many hours constitutes a "day" - it should be a set amount.

If you want to retain flexibility and your weeks are 40 hours then make your policy for leave five weeks, or 200 hours. If you're going to make a "day" a completely flexible construct from anything from 1 - 24 hours, it's useless to measure holiday entitlement by it.

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Replying to kestrepo:
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By Mr_awol
23rd Apr 2021 11:22

If they've worked 40 hours in three days that aren't getting any 'extra' holiday though. They are taking time off in lieu.

Your issue appears not to be with their holiday intiltlement, but either keeping them to core hours, trusting that they really did do 40 hours in those three days, or whether their output over a condensed period is as effective as it would be if spread out.

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By Hazel Accounts
29th Apr 2021 14:04

kestrepo wrote:

Perhaps a bit extreme but an employee could work a 40 hour week in 3 days and have 4 days not working but not on holiday. Say a standard 25 days leave would normally be 5 weeks but 25/3 = more than 8 weeks!

Statutory holiday is 5.6 weeks including bank hols which equates to 28 days for a 5 day a week employee (I assume your 25 days is plus bank hols?)
If they only work 3 days a week then what you need to say is holiday is not 25 days but 5 weeks so they get 5 x (3 day) weeks off (which is 15 x 13.33 hour days)

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By Duggimon
23rd Apr 2021 10:37

While you are obliged to let employees work from home if they can and want to, you're not obliged to let them pick and choose their days and hours, you can just mandate they work at specific times unless prior authorisation is given.

For the last year we've had a lot of staff working odd hours resulting in large amounts of overtime run up, now we mandate prior authorisation is required for anyone wanting to work outside office hours, or for more or less than their contracted hours in a given week.

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By tom123
23rd Apr 2021 10:53

Well, you need a policy.
If you are accruing holiday by the hour (which I wouldn't personally like to do for full time staff) you can still mandate that it must be taken as half or full days, which consist of 4 or 8 hours (or whatever).

You obviously still need holiday forms or whatever to record this stuff.

WFH has not changed the basic idea of an employment contract.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
23rd Apr 2021 11:42

As above, either have "days" in old school system with some flex, ie "8 hours between 8am and 6pm" and count days.

Or you just whack a timer on their PC and go full on "by the hour" and redo the contract. Its hard to do both.

Of course timers don't record ALL time worked, but can also be "gamed" (ie sat in front of the TV and just refreshing now and again) but clearly employees doing this will be found out pretty quick when you compare output to input. No different from salaried workers who 'work until its done'.

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Maytuna
By DJKL
23rd Apr 2021 12:11

Re variable hours working you just do a percentage accrual, I used to keep excel sheets and as our staff then got 29 days holiday a year (pro rata) then it was 52x5x8=2080 hours, holidays are 29x8=232hours, 2080-232=1848 hours worked if full time, so for each hour worked 232/1848x 100=12.55% holiday accrual re hours entitled.

A sheet that records s bfwd holiday hours due + 12.55% of hours worked that week - hours holiday taken that week =cfwd hours due is all I used.

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By Nebs
29th Apr 2021 10:23

Maybe now would be a good time to scrap all holidays and bank holidays, increase pay accordingly, and people can choose how much time they want to take off.

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By Hugo Fair
29th Apr 2021 11:56

Because ...
* there'd be no 'increase pay accordingly' (holidays are already paid time), so all you've done is remove the employee's holiday entitlement without compensation?
* there are H & S considerations (including mental health) that underpin enforcing people to take minimum amounts of leave p.a.?
* employers need to be able to plan need for specific resources against forecast deliveries (rostering or scheduling)?

You have a point (possibly) regarding Bank Holidays, whose raison d'etre has long since disappeared over the horizon ... but the rest wouldn't lead to the nirvana you seem to expect - it would just deliver an infinite number of 'zero hours' contracts!

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
By Nebs
29th Apr 2021 12:50

Sorry if I wasn't clear, you increase their current salary by the equivalent of all paid holidays and bank holidays, get a new increased hourly rate, and then they chose when to take time off with no pay. It seems to work OK for the self employed. Or maybe the self employed should be forced to stop trading for 5 weeks a year, and never work more than a 48 hour week, in case their mental health is affected.

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Replying to Nebs:
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By Hugo Fair
29th Apr 2021 13:26

OK, your maths is now clear (based on employees choosing "when to take time off with no pay") ... so you are indeed advocating Zero Hours contracts for everyone.

You can't seriously be trying to equate employment with self-employment?

Of course the self-employed shouldn't "be forced to stop trading for 5 weeks a year, and never work more than a 48 hour week, in case their mental health is affected" - but, unlike employees, they make those decisions for themselves not on behalf of others.

Employers are responsible for ensuring the employment rights (of which holidays are but one tiny component) of all their employees ... whereas the self-employed are, by definition, solely responsible (in these terms) for themselves.

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