ICAEW, CIMA and CIPFA confirm merger talks

ICAEW, CIMA and CIPFA confirm merger talks

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This is a REINSTATED closed down interesting and popular thread of great interest.

"The comment shown above was made in response to the following
AccountingWEB news story:

Title: ICAEW, CIMA and CIPFA confirm merger talks
Date: 15th July 2004

The ICAEW, CIMA and the public sector body CIPFA this week confirmed
undertaking "exploratory talks" about the possibility of merging.

The news emerged as ICAEW chief executive Eric Anstee was on annual
leave, but both CIMA's Charles Tilley and CIPFA's Steve Free made
positive public noises about the move.

All three bodies issued public statements. The ICAEW commented, "There
remains much detail to be worked through and any final decision will
rest with the respective memberships of the three institutes."

The merger would create a single professional body of 200,000
accountants and more than 85,000 students - large enough to match the
scale of the ACCA.

In the ICAEW's view, "Consolidation would ensure unrivalled expertise,
member representation and support. It would also mean a more powerful
and influential voice in national and international discussions with
governments, regulatory bodies and standard setters."

However CIMA's official statement was slightly more cautious: "CIMA has
recently finalised its 2010 strategy and would, therefore, only consider
consolidation if this delivers to its members the benefits of this
strategy more quickly or effectively."

The ACCA, which was left out of the cold in the latest round of talks,
attempted a merger with CIPFA and CIMA in 1998. Unfortunately, it
alienated its potential partners by failing to consult them before
launching its takeover bid.

The first attempts to rationalise accountancy's six UK professional
bodies down to three occurred in the 1970s, when the bodies for England,
Scotland and Ireland failed to agree terms.

An Institute of Chartered Accountants of Great Britain was mooted in the
late 1980s, but the Scots institute voted against merging with the
English.

During the 90s the ICAEW sounded out both CIPFA and then CIMA about
coming together. Both attempts broke down, with ICAEW members rejecting
a merger with CIMA in 1995.

Source: AccountingWEB"

Prof Toddlings

Prof Toddlings

Replies (16)

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By AnonymousUser
14th Jan 2005 06:17

ACCA's offer of direct membership to ICAEW
The above reported on another accountingweb.co.uk thread could have been ACCA's direct membership (DM) offer to AIA members who passed by examinations and can write and speak English well.

This will cause AIA to think about its move to grab IFA members direct without having them sit for any exams in the AIA course.

If ACCA's offer materialised, then AIA would only exist as IFA members dominated members.

Then, IFA members converted to AIA membership could stage a coup to overthrow the current council members and also change the entire full-time administration staff of the UK HQ body.

I hope ACCA would offer AIA members direct admission. Almost 100% of qualified AIA members would take up the offer then.

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By User deleted
22nd Nov 2004 15:19

Comment
I guess you need to be a member of HKICPA then and work in Hong Kong.

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By AnonymousUser
22nd Nov 2004 06:58

Prospective ICAEW member via AIA
Can any alumni member of AIA Malaysia confirm that AIA has been recognised by ICAEW for direct membership without further examination just like HKICPA members get admitted to ICAEW without restrictions and conditions?

Will this be announced in the coming 28 Nov 2004 convocation at the Grand Plaza Hotel in its Park Royal ballroom?

I want short cut direct admission to ICAEW via the AIA and then forget about AIA membership because I don't benefit by being AIA member. ICAEW benefits are far much better and greater than AIA.

I believe all Malaysian AIA members will follow my good example and AIA will have no more members in Malaysia but only students. These student will also follow my foot steps by joiningg ICAEW after obtaining AIA membership and join ICAEW membership.

Unless AIA tell me that they are offering good benefits like ICAEW, then I may think twice maintaining AIA membership. What do other AIA members think?

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By AnonymousUser
19th Oct 2004 03:12

Another milestone achievement? Yes, read on ....
Tho Me Lee , 19th-October
AIA has good reason to celebrate with this news
James [***] , 18th October 2004
Entry into CA training
No worry AIA member, the English CA Mill might have considering AIA members to go straight into ICAEW Associate same as HKICPA, then there isn't any need to write any examinations.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIA member very WORRIED now , 18th October 2004
ABE and IFA are recognised by ICAEW
These two bodies make AIA members very much more worried about themselves now. AIA can sit ICAEW exams or not or cannot? Can ICAEW examination council chief tell us or AIA uk please?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AIA member very WORRIED now , 18th October 2004
AIA to ICAEW pathway "lost"?
If you surf ""http://www.icaew.co.uk/careers/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_69902,MNXI_69902 exemptions for UK bodies
http://www.icaew.co.uk/careers/index.cfm?AUB=TB2I_69904,MNXI_69904""

and can't find AIA qualification in it, do you you worry a little, a bit little worried, worried, much worried, very worried, or very much worried?

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By AnonymousUser
12th Oct 2004 03:50

CPA a future mainstream body in this great world
CPA is even great too
Did AIA took part in such projects as CPA? Read this from CPA (SA) website :
"CPA ACTIVE PROJECTS

Corporate Law Review
As the South African Department of Trade and Industry is currently completing a Corporate Law Review policy document which will be made available for public comment once finalized, the CPA approached the Project Manager: Corporate Law Reform to participate in the review process.
The CPA will, according to the Project Manager, partake in the research program which should take effect as soon as the policy document is signed by the minister.
The CPA have indicated interest in the following areas:
- Corporate Governance
- Insolvency and Corporate Rescue
- Administration and Enforcement
- Non-Profit Organization
Written and compiled by NF van Wyk CPA Technical Consultant, [email protected]
This article contains summaries of relevant legislation. Please consult the relevant legislation for a comprehensive understanding of the subjects discussed."

-----------------------------------------------
Another AIA , 12th-October
AIA CEO can make himself very great at IFAC forums and meetings
Now, AIA is so famous already through its CEO attending such high profile meeting, research networks all over. Next, AIA CEO will be well-known and expected to be great and present himself at IFAC meetings and forums where a great element of decisions and planning forward for the accountancy profession is expected.
Let us all give a clap to AIA CEO and its intended or impending attendance at all future IFAC forums and meetings to show off how great AIA is to the world of accountancy.

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By AnonymousUser
11th Oct 2004 03:59

AIA is going to be very popular - a world Mainstream qualificati

AIA is going to be very famous and very well-known because of its CEO trip .... see below AIA E-News

AIA CHIEF EXECUTIVE ATTENDS PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATIONS RESEARCH NETWORK ANNUAL CONFERENCE
Friday, October 08 2004, 11:34
AIA Chief Executive, Philip Turnbull, attended the Professional Associations Research Network (PARN) annual conference, held at The Royal Society, London.

This year’s PARN UK Annual Conference looked at the growing concern amongst associations of how to create a professional body that appeals to and offers appropriate services to all its members, regardless of age, gender or culture.

The programme includes a mix of formal presentations, case studies, individual reflections, and interactive discussion. It will highlight some of the factors influencing the attitudes and expectations of the “next generation”. It will also consider internal and external responses associations are, or could be, implementing, in areas such as marketing and communications, encouraging active participation and representation.

Mr Turnbull said: “The conference attracted a wide range of expert and high profile speakers from various sectors, but with a shared interest in professional associations. It was an interesting event and I look forward to the AIA taking part in future events.”

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By AnonymousUser
06th Oct 2004 03:27

Matthew, I beg to differ.....
....I was thinking of looking at the QE market from another point.

How about CIMA, ACCA students dropped half-way and move over to AIA, complete AIA finals, then en-route to MIA QE.

Meaning, these dropped outs got to do more papers but easier ones as many claimed to be?

I see a standard rise in AIA questions now, despite the fact that there is possible "limited" resources due to its world largest population base ie Malaysia, refusing to pay up their overdue or much overdue annual subscriptions. I think professionals are professionals hired for a job to be done. Even though the incentive may not be as good as CCABs, at least the examiners show their spirit and courage to move forward professionally. AIA's standard has the standard equal or above some of the scheduled bodies of MIA.

Again, I stress that the exam standards is ONE THING, the managers or council of AIA is ANOTHER. But which is performing professionally and which is NOT, the public could see for themselves easily.

Maybe an excellent advice to AIA would be - don't wait for its Malaysian members to pay up their past dues (or long dues) but just proceed to secure that MIA recognition which AIA promised for almost a decade but failed to secure all these while. Then, Malaysian members would be convinced this time that AIA is indeed doing something for them.

No point for AIA sending red notice reminders threatening its members who are the source and supply for AIA. I think this is a stupid act threatening its members with red notices for something members don't deserve to get.

Well, AIA's survival is dependent on its members and AIA should not demand its members pay up their subscriptions which they themselves lack the support needed to be given to its students and members needing that professional support similar to CIMA, MICPA, ACCA. Care to comment this, Matthew?

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By AnonymousUser
05th Oct 2004 05:15

Would there be MRA between CFA(SA) and CA(SA) or merger?
Consider this, what if CFA(SA) got the offer to merge with CA(SA)? What would ICAEW think? Better? Because there is more members?

"Prof Toddlings , 5th October 2004
CFA(SA) and NIA
Now that the change of name of CFA(SA) to CPA(SA) is more or less confirmed, I would be interested to see how the new brand CPA(SA) would progress onwards.
Brand name do create a stimulus for change for the better .... or the worse. That all depends on how the CEO would spearhead his operations. In CFA(SA)'s case, the designate CPA(SA) is certainly better sounding than CFA (SA) (some thought it to be Chartered Financial Analyst (USA)).

I would also wonder how CA(SA) think about this change. Certainly, it didn't object to CFA(SA)'s name change, otherwise, the process would not have been successful.

The world shall see only two major designates - CA and CPA. Let's see how CPA and CA fare in South Africa.

CFA(SA) has MRA with NIA Australia. We shall soon see how things could developed further between the two.

By the way, how is the NIA Strategic Plans going on in Malaysia? Lots of news have been said about NIA much earlier. I would like to know its progress and has it achieved its strategic goals by now in Malaysia? NIA seemed to have cut-off the MRA with the Inst of Cooperative and Management Accountants in Malaysia, a move best told by NIA's CEO to explain it here. NIA CEO, and NIA Malaysia, are you listening?"

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By User deleted
06th Oct 2004 12:56

Comment ( ref : Prof)
Your comment regarding the ACCA & CIMA dropouts are true...they will indeed be sitting for more papers but the important point to them is that they have a PROMISED degree that will lead to recognition in future.
It' not like they have a choice!.They wish to be accountants but the have gone way off mark with their original choice (ACCA, CIMA...)so they take the AIA little knowing MIA has turn the tables against them again by requiring them to sit for the 4 QE papers.

AIA strategy is first to grow its brand in the UK not EU. IF you can't even be taken seriously in the country of origin what chance do you have against stronger rivals?.MIA's recognition I'm afraid has to put aside. AIA has to get its domestic strategy in place first. ACCA and CIMA are prime examples.
Both grew out of UK. Both had a sense of where they needed to be.


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By User deleted
05th Oct 2004 10:51

Comment. ( ref S Cheung)
The source of ACCA students are

1. self funded students.
2. UK accounting graduates ( doing part time)
3. local uninversities
4. enginering graduates
5. Mature students
6. ICSA
7. sponsored students ( audit or govt)

AIA graduates are the minority. However students of ACCA & CIMA who don't make it in their own initial program have been know to join AIA as a last resort.

The QE runned by MIA are more for people who don't fit into schdule 1 or 2 of the accountants act.It does not really affect the student numbers of ACCA or CIMA.

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By AnonymousUser
07th Sep 2004 07:01

S Cheung, AIA UK won't grow because of this FORTUNATE happening
This is what I posted in another thread "Prof TOTs (Sr) PhD MBA CA , 7th September 2004
Certainly the heat is on ACCA but caused by AIA
Soon, many many AIA members in Malaysia shall sit for the MIA QE examinations.
Many years back, AIA members were eyeing the ACCA examinations but unfortunately ACCA does not grant a single paper exemptions to AIA holders, not even ACCA's first financial accounting paper for its home country DTI recognised qaulification. What a funny thinking and decision on exemptions! So, it appeared to the world that ACCA's first financial accounting paper is higher standard than AIA's final financial accounting III paper which offers no exemption to even PhD holders like I. Is this fair, true and just to do so?

Fortunately, (not unfortunately now) ACCA continued to grant NO EXEMPTION to AIA members, thus, it is just right and fortunate for AIA members to join the MIA QE examinations of four papers which it deserves.

Ain't the heat is on ACCA now because of AIA.

To ACCA, you better grant 12 out of 14 paper exemptions to AIA members in order to beat the MIA QE offer of 4 papers.

Let's say the papers Corporate Financial Reporting and Management papers at final part of ACCA be offered to AIA members from now on. If more than that, no AIA members would sit the ACCA examinations.

AIA - make your wisest choice, so should ACCA make its wisest choice so that the heat is not on ACCA anymore. ACCA's wise choice will grab the AIA market in Malaysia and its members shall forget about AIA UK because they make the wisest choice of joining ACCA to sit the final 2 papers."

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By AnonymousUser
30th Aug 2004 08:54

Accountancy radio
Maybe this thread better be aired over accountancy radio, please see https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=129910&d=448&h=455&f=0.

Then, we get to read postings here and hear it in accountancy radio.

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By AnonymousUser
23rd Aug 2004 10:12

What is the status now?
With the ICAEW chief having come back from his leave, and the discussion on this merger having progress to some depth, may I ask if any reader can provide feedback as to the level of exploration of this merger as of now?

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By AnonymousUser
25th Aug 2004 12:37

Old Threads
I am not able to re-construct my old threads as I haven't kept copies for my previous postings.

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By AnonymousUser
25th Aug 2004 07:34

S Cheung, if you are still reading Aweb
I read you commented about your postings and Prof TOTs on Aweb threads being closed down and you subsequently agreed to the idea of REINSTATING the closed down useful sites, you somehow or rather seemed not to support your own words.

You did not support the postings to this REINSTATED thread.

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By AnonymousUser
26th Aug 2004 03:47

Write what you feel like writing, S Cheung
No need to recall back all your past postings to be pasted here, just write from now on what you like and feel like writing here.

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