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I'm looking for 64-8 efficiencies

I'm looking for 64-8 efficiencies

Didn't find your answer?

Okay silly question I know but I'm trying to figure out how I can extend our 'cloud based' and 'paper-free' practices across HMRC related tasks.  Currently, where there's no immediate face to face meeting, I email a 64-8 to a client for them to print and post.  Often they scan and email it back to me but if you post a scanned copy to HMRC it gets rejected.  Of course I can ask the clients to post to me / HMRC themselves but what I'd really like is an electronic solution. 

Am I delusional?

Replies (23)

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By JCresswellTax
22nd Jan 2014 17:34

You could try

The HMRC online authorisation process.

However, this is limited to Self-Assessment 'customers' (what a shit[***][***] expression) at the moment.

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By EstherG
22nd Jan 2014 17:49

I use the online authorisation process to display clients in my Agent Portal but my understanding is that this alone does not enable me to speak to HMRC about a client's affairs on the telephone.  To do this we still need to send a 64-8.

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Replying to tom123:
By petersaxton
22nd Jan 2014 21:45

Not so

EstherG wrote:

I use the online authorisation process to display clients in my Agent Portal but my understanding is that this alone does not enable me to speak to HMRC about a client's affairs on the telephone.  To do this we still need to send a 64-8.

Your understanding is wrong. I do my authorisations online and HMRC will talk to me about client's affairs.

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By MDK45
22nd Jan 2014 17:56

I thought the electronic authorisation gave permission to speak to hmrc? If you can file without permission then what benefit does electronic authorisation have over manual 64-8?

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By taxhound
22nd Jan 2014 18:35

PAYE

I think it is only the PAYE department which seem to think on line authorisation is not sufficient to allow them to speak to agents.  It definitely works for SA and CT.

Glad to see they are all working together.

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By MDK45
22nd Jan 2014 18:57

Don't get me started taxhound!

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By Sarah K Dunks
22nd Jan 2014 20:25

VAT

I've had the problem with VAT as well as payroll.

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By cparker87
22nd Jan 2014 22:39

Me too
I authorise online and it works for me.

As an aside how annoying is it to get hold of an effective date of registration!?

As another aside, does anyone know how to register for the Business Tax Dashboard on a Clients login these days? It seems to have moved.

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By ArsalanShah
22nd Jan 2014 23:56

Paper 64-8 and Online Authorisations are equally good

Have you been ever been refused by HMRC for any such client or it is just your assumption?

Paper forms 64-8 and Online Authorisations are subsitutes to each other.Clients appearing in your agent portal confirms that you are acting as agent on your client's behalf.

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By Carl London
23rd Jan 2014 00:25

I have had HMRC refuse to speak to me re PAYE even though they held online authorisation - the rep told me it was a different level of authorisation to a 64-8! This was a couple of years ago - it hasn't happened recently though.

Haven't bothered with paper 64-8's for ages now... way too slow!

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By petersaxton
23rd Jan 2014 08:01

HMRC were wrong

It happens - regularly!

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By bernard michael
23rd Jan 2014 09:20

You can only do on line authorisation if you have the UTR

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By vince8
23rd Jan 2014 09:46

Linking

If you have a client under SA whose self employed and also employed you can occasionally get knocked back by HMRC saying the 2 are not linked if you quote the NI number when calling about a code for example. But it usually gets sorted quickly. My big gripe is the NIC deferment group who insist on a 64-8.

The only other time I use a 64-8 is to register a new client starting out as self employed, along with CWF1. Other than that its electronic all the way for SA clients.

I was amused last year with an invite to a local HMRC agent event where the agenda covered half a day on 64-8's. 

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By CatherineR5
24th Jan 2014 12:13

64-8 as authorisation for authorisation!

I ask my clients to complete and sign the 64-8 as proof that they're happy for me to seek authorisation, and as a central record of their details.

I then use on-line authorisation to get actual authorisation.

Last time I rang HMRC on a client's behalf they said "do you hold a signed 64-8 for the client?" and I said (quite truthfully) "Yes" and they proceeded to help me.  Not much, but that's another story.

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Replying to Deborah Taylor-Morris:
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By EstherG
24th Jan 2014 14:12

Asked if there's a 64-8 on file...

CatherineR5 wrote:

I ask my clients to complete and sign the 64-8 as proof that they're happy for me to seek authorisation, and as a central record of their details.

I then use on-line authorisation to get actual authorisation.

Last time I rang HMRC on a client's behalf they said "do you hold a signed 64-8 for the client?" and I said (quite truthfully) "Yes" and they proceeded to help me.  Not much, but that's another story.

 

This has been my experience.  I ring HMRC and although I have online authorisation they've asked if there is a 64-8 on file.  It is for this reason that historically I have done both.  Perhaps I won't bother any more and see how I get on!

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By ruthp
24th Jan 2014 13:59

64-8 for CT different as for VAT
When we do paper 64-8 (rarely) for CT, the client does end up on the online client list.
When you do a paper 64-8 for VAT (rarely), they do not end up online and you need to do the online auth for that to happen.
I have a few clients based overseas so the online auth code sent out in the post does not work for them

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By bill ellison
24th Jan 2014 15:50

64/8 overrides

I had online authorisation for a client's PAYE/CIS.  When a problem arose they refused to speak to me saying that I only had authorisation to submit CIS returns online.  I then got the client to sign a 64/8 and sent it off.  The online authorisation then dropped off my client list.  When I queried this it took almost a month to get back to me.  They then informed me that the 64/8 overrode the online authorisation which had been consequently been removed.  I then couldn't do CIS submissions online anymore.  By the time all this was sorted out the client had gone elsewhere.  Alice in Wonderland or what?

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By Howard Marks
24th Jan 2014 15:52

Not used a paper copy in over 2 yrs

Online auth all the way for me, never had an issue.

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By petersaxton
24th Jan 2014 20:52

PAYE

I think there may be issues with PAYE that you don't get with SA & CT.

I was dealing with a client for years and then suddenly HMRC said I wasn't authorised. They were on my list of PAYE clients. I asked for a list of authorisations and there were plenty who HMRC were saying they weren't authorised. I'll investigate further after 31/01/14!

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By Yonder Dave
25th Jan 2014 11:06

I have only got experience of VAT and PAYE but

 in the past we kept having the problem of not being able to speak to HMRC even though we were authorised for online submissions. It seems online authorisation is for submissions and viewing the account only and does not authorise HMRC to discuss any details that are not available online, although I have had occasions when the Helpline have exceeded this before realising there was no 64-8 registered.

To overcome this we now include a copy of the 64-8 with our letter of engagement. When the letter is returned the online registration is completed and 64-8 sent to Longbenton. I realise there may be an element of duplication, and hope I’m not tempting fate, but we have never had a problem since.

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By petersaxton
25th Jan 2014 11:25

Longbenton

Me: Have you got the 64-8?

HMRC: No

Me: How come you signed for it?

HMRC: That's a different department

Me: Can I speak to them?

HMRC: No, they are not customer facing.

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By norstar
03rd Nov 2014 12:22

Definitely an issue for PAYE - not other departments

I can confirm what others have said. Online authorisation works for CT and SA. It doesn't substitute a 64-8 for PAYE however and I've had problems with VAT also in the past.

We've tried three times today to find out the answer to a routine question which the agent dashboard doesn't enable you to do (but the client one does).

Three unhelpful operators all said they wouldn't talk to us as no paper 64-8 was in place.

What a load of &%[email protected]

 

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By AlanAG
10th Dec 2015 12:09

Electronic Signatures

I was wondering if, or when,HMRC will accept electronically signed documents.

Does anyone have information on this?

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