Industry to Practice

I will be qualified in the industry but want to run my own accounts firm

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Hi All.

Hope all well.

Please accept my apologies if this has been asked before. As mentioned in the question I will be ACCA qualified in the industry however once qualified would like to run my own firm.

I know from ACCA requirements that once qualified I will have to do further 2/3 years experience with ACCA approved employer for practicing certificate requirements. My employer is not ACCA approved and most other suitable ones would be practices and I would highly doubt that any practice would employ me for 1) from an industry 2) just to give me what I need to open my own firm. 

I was wondering if anyone here and/or someone they know has managed to do this and if so the path to this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks In Advance 

Replies (19)

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By Mr_awol
31st Dec 2020 21:58

Yes it’s been asked before. A million times.

In short, people who qualify in practice generally have the skills to move fairly easily into industry and their transition is assisted by colleagues and superiors, on the job training, etc. On the other hand people who qualify in industry won’t have the first idea about much of practice life and so whilst they can be trained (normally not worth it as their qualified status makes them too expensive for a trainee position) by going straight into self employment with no mentor they are effectively self teaching on the job with some poor mug paying for their initial mistakes.

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By paul.benny
01st Jan 2021 08:36

Ditto to Mr awol's comments.

Also: Why do you want to do this? Running your own practice is very very different from working in industry, not least in the range of non-accounting skills required.

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By the_drookit_dug
01st Jan 2021 10:29

What type of services would you be looking to offer?

I think many people looking to run their own practices picture an abundance of business advisory / outsourced FD style work, when the reality is likely to be quite different - a lot of tax returns and compliance work for sole traders and small companies. Rewarding in their own right, but you need a lot of them to build up a decent income, and the amount of paperwork that comes with managing such a client base should not be underestimated (e.g. KYC, AML, engagement letters, checklists etc).

I don't mean to put you off, but you need to go into this absolutely clear about what to expect.

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Replying to the_drookit_dug:
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Jan 2021 12:10

"I think many people looking to run their own practices picture an abundance of business advisory / outsourced FD style work."

Just to put this in perspective, I've never had such an assignment. Ever.

Even though I can think of a couple of client companies which would've benefited.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Jan 2021 13:29

Concur
Clients generally want the basic bookkeeping and compliance at a cost they think is fair ( and wages are just push a button, no time needed and you already own the software )

The clever strategic stuff is just a chat, expected to be FoC (free of charge to a good client)

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Replying to the_drookit_dug:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Jan 2021 13:33

100 rent accounts and tax returns adds up to about £25,000 income.
But there will be expenses

Why would people come to you?
Being cheaper would be my guess as you have zero experience of how to do the work a practice does.

You are correct
You are too expensive for me to employ, and it takes more than 2 years from scratch to get you ready to fly

Every practice gets requests for work experience from people who need it at intern rules ( NO PAY ) and rejects them as time lost teaching is significant.

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By tom123
01st Jan 2021 13:50

I kind of agree with Mr Awol.

I have worked in industry (now at board level) for 20+ years. There is very little overlap, (in my view) between the one off compliance work I get our auditors to do once a year and the work that keeps my company going day to day.

Having said that, not sure a pure audit ex practice person would be actually that much use to an MD trying to run a manufacturing firm either.

Neither branch of the profession is perfect or fault free. Wild horses would not persuade me to sit in my spare bedroom sifting through mountains of till rolls and trying to put together a TB.

If you are keen to leave industry behind, then by all means move - but you will need to learn entirely new skills. For context I added ATT in recent years so that I had a better idea of tax effects.

Large businesses are happy to pay KPMG types to come and advise on all sorts of stuff. SME firms just consider external accountants as the compliance engine IMHO.

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Replying to tom123:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Jan 2021 14:21

Agree
Do what you are good at
A former auditor has limited skills to add to a business, or to a non audit practice
I would be no help to a big company, as I have no such clients.
I am stuck where I am with only practice skills.

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Replying to tom123:
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By Mr_awol
01st Jan 2021 17:12

The main difference is that the typical ‘first move from practice’ is a senior assistant role paying a minimum of £30k but normally £35-£40k. Someone with 5 years in practice and ACA qualified can normally pick up a job at that level and with support from their superiors will be able to progress. It would also be a decent pay rise for most recently qualifieds.

Take someone with 5 years in industry and they normally have ACCA (or even CIMA) and to move into practice they might be looking at £18-£22k as a raw trainee, which will normally be a pay cut. If they’ve worked in the public sector (especially the local council) then you can just write them off completely

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By tom123
01st Jan 2021 13:50

I kind of agree with Mr Awol.

I have worked in industry (now at board level) for 20+ years. There is very little overlap, (in my view) between the one off compliance work I get our auditors to do once a year and the work that keeps my company going day to day.

Having said that, not sure a pure audit ex practice person would be actually that much use to an MD trying to run a manufacturing firm either.

Neither branch of the profession is perfect or fault free. Wild horses would not persuade me to sit in my spare bedroom sifting through mountains of till rolls and trying to put together a TB.

If you are keen to leave industry behind, then by all means move - but you will need to learn entirely new skills. For context I added ATT in recent years so that I had a better idea of tax effects.

Large businesses are happy to pay KPMG types to come and advise on all sorts of stuff. SME firms just consider external accountants as the compliance engine IMHO.

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By CarloClaud
01st Jan 2021 15:52

Hi all is like to apologise first of all for not mentioning that I don’t have interest of auditing.

I wanted mainly focus on small business turnover anywhere between £50k to £1 million (though majority of them being around £500k mark)

I’m saying this because I believe I have client base already due to my back ground and most of the potential clients would prefer me due to language barrier mainly.

I already received some news that there is an accountant who is already operating (started in last year or two) and gained around 80 to 90 of these clients but what really baffled me is that everyone who uses him I spoke to told me that he obtained a practicing certificate in less than a year by doing a course (no one knows the course) and I know he didn’t have any practice experience prior to operating and I thought in order to operating as a practice specially having Tod people with a practicing certificate you would have had to have it signed off with experience, surely you can’t just obtain one by doing course otherwise there would be stupid amount of accounts practices.

I did some research into this recently and having been registered and looking to qualify with ACCA I wanted to take the proper route and abide by their rules.

Thanks

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Replying to CarloClaud:
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By Matrix
01st Jan 2021 16:23

I don’t know what TOD stands for but there are no barriers to entry to offer accounting services.

You don’t need a practising certificate, unless of course you breach the terms of your professional body by practising.

Why don’t you read up all the 2020 posts on here and decide if you still want to do it?

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Replying to CarloClaud:
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By Youareatit
01st Jan 2021 17:49

Do you have clients or not?

If you have you are in breach of ACCA regs.

If you do not, then why are you saying that you have a client base. You have already been told that this is not the case. https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/practicing-certificate-3

You are happy that your clients will chose you due to language barriers rather than being a good Accountant? If so, just give up the ACCA, register with HMRC for AML and get on with it.

This other person you talk about. How can you really comment when you don't know anything about it. You have no clue about the course, who is his Prac cert with? What is his fee income? Probably will be cheap as chips, know nothing, has clients who come on here be-moaning his work. Lots of those types about.

Try answering some of the questions that pop up on here, go back to March 2020, see if you can deal with them, see if you really want to deal with the [***] that crops up in the job these days.

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Replying to Youareatit:
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By CarloClaud
01st Jan 2021 19:58

I don’t have any clients and neither am I doing any kind of work for anyone/business. I am aware that would be a breach of ACCA and general regulations.

I meant I have a potential client base in this and in my last post (I clearly made a mistake that made people perceive it as I am already acting on their behalf)

I am a confident that I can build up clients yes for 1) language advantage 2) having followed proper rules, regulations and guidelines for ACCA and hoping this would give me an upper hand to other non qualified accountants, this way I could have broaden the client base it up an running.

I’m not moaning about this other guys work and what he charges people, I was just curious how (of he actually did) can someone get a practising certificate in less than a month with no practice experience. This doesn’t change my mind or ambition about finishing ACCA and I was just seeing practice as a different/alternative route if it was achievable from being qualified in industry and if could get the relevant experience from practice. If I can’t I will stay in industry and won’t have a practice nor have clients on the side as i know that would be a breach of ACCA regulations it’s not end of the world.

I think I am better off going back and reading some more recent threads you are right as this was just a general questions and was curious of people’s opinions.

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Replying to CarloClaud:
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By Mr_awol
01st Jan 2021 22:00

CarloClaud wrote:

I am a confident that I can build up clients yes for 1) language advantage 2) having followed proper rules, regulations and guidelines for ACCA and hoping this would give me an upper hand to other non qualified accountants, this way I could have broaden the client base it up an running.

Quick heads up - there will some on here who may take issue with that second comment.

For my part, I will just advise you that (at risk of repeating my earlier comments) if you came to our place looking for a job with your shiny new ACCA qualification (if/when you achieve it) and we chose to take you on (unlikely as we generally avoid training and take people who know what they are doing and can hit the ground running) then you would start on a salary lower than our part-quals, and quite a lot lower than one of our QBEs who has absolutely no formal accountancy qualifications.

Seriously without wanting to belittle the qualification you are striving for, without relevant experience it means very nearly nothing.

And even the clients aren’t fooled by it either if I’m honest.

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Replying to Mr_awol:
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By Paul Crowley
01st Jan 2021 22:20

Most clients only worry about qualifications when there is a need
Loans, borrowing etc

The biggest local firm do not even advertise or signpost that they are Chartered Accountants
I do but again most clients assume all accountants are chartered accountants
Most small clients leaving on price basis go to non qualified.
Had quite a few back

For the avoidance of doubt
My firm is 2 fee earners
Me qualified, My partner QBE. I have to sign his clients loan references
I have two AATs that are not yet client ready
Both AATs could sign his loan references. I prefer that they do not

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Replying to Mr_awol:
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By CarloClaud
01st Jan 2021 22:42

Thanks for the heads up.

My intention was purely based on the fact that once and accountant is qualified (not necessarily has to be ACCA) there may be areas where they have are more knowledge/ experience than those aren’t qualified for example if an unqualified accountant doing accounts for small businesses and property investor approached them wanted their property business accounts doing they might not be familiar with reliefs and allowances available for different types of properties etc. I was never out there to belittle unqualified accountants as I know my self that there are some really good QBEs out there.

I understand your advise regarding wanting to go to practice and to have low expectations (if get accepted in the first place) and quiet possibly realise that this route may not be for me.

Therefore industry seems like the future route for me and focus on this.

Thanks for your valuable advise again

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Slim
By Slim
02nd Jan 2021 17:52

It’s really hard work even with experience, it’s not easy money and much more difficult than being employed.

I had the same same outlook and thought I’d have to bat clients away with a [***] stick as I’m chartered. Needless to say I was very wrong.

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Mark Lee headshot 2023
By Mark Lee
05th Jan 2021 11:23

Hi CarloClaud
Sounds like you have a good commercial outlook. well done.

My best tip for anyone thinking of starting their own practice and wanting to know what is involved is to get a copy of Della Hudson's book: The Numbers Business

As and when you think you are ready to build your own practice, please remember that you will need to build your skills across 4 Ps
https://bookmarklee.co.uk/want-to-add-advisory-services-to-your-offering...

Full disclosure: I mentor a select number of accountants each year on a commercial basis but I'm not best placed to help start ups.

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