Information to help complete your tax return

Information to help complete your tax return

Didn't find your answer?

I am completing the tax returns for a pensioner couple who are very organised and have given me all their figures. 

However I just went into "Information to help complete your tax return" on HMRC online services and the pension figures on there are a few pounds out from the ones they gave me.

I assume these figures are reliable and should be used?

Replies (31)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

paddle steamer
By DJKL
02nd Nov 2016 16:35

It all depends on how many weeks on the old figure and how many on the new re the annual April increase, that is if you are talking about the state pension.

The client likely gave you the 13x 4 weekly figures paid to them between 6/4/15 and 5/4/16 whereas the HMRC will be as supplied to them by the DHSS and are likely to be the more accurate and correct(as are those on coding notices)

However if they do vary more than a few pounds you probably want to check/investigate to be sure.
(clients sometimes include Christmas winter fuel etc in the numbers they give you)

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd Nov 2016 17:10

DJKL wrote:
.....as supplied to them by the DHSS ......

Very old school, DJKL.

;-)

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
02nd Nov 2016 17:39

So, what are they now called,

"Advanced years facilitators"?

I am really not coping with the twenty first century.

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd Nov 2016 17:08

I like to see the letter they got before the start of the tax year but filling in the return is sometimes nearly two years since the letter was issued.

You can't just take the money they get in case there's attendance allowance or something in there.

My dad habitually used to tell me what he was currently getting ...... [sigh]

For a few pounds, I wouldn't care. The tax will be 20% of a few pounds which is even fewer.

Thanks (1)
Red Kite
By Red Kite
02nd Nov 2016 17:18

IF, as you say, your pensioner couple are very organised, I'd suggest that their figures will be more accurate, than HMRC's.

Are you just accepting all the figures or, have you been given supporting documents?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By 356B
02nd Nov 2016 17:24

I always amend the HMRC figure, because it ignores their own rule relating to rounding. (I'm like that!)

Thanks (0)
Replying to 356B:
RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd Nov 2016 17:25

So am I.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By NYB
02nd Nov 2016 19:09

Think the answer is " who knows". Sometimes HMRC are correct to the penny. What I do find often is that only 12 payments are calculated by client. They look at one & multiply itbout. I tend to go with what client quotes. Up to them to get it right. Can't do everything for them - just do best b

Thanks (0)
By SteveHa
02nd Nov 2016 20:25

For the NIRP figure, I generally take the Revenue figure, since it should be as provided by DWP.

For anything else (especially after checking my own PTA), I'd take the Revenue figure with a bucket full of salt.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By David Treitel
02nd Nov 2016 21:55

Has anything changed in the law since this was published: https://www.taxation.co.uk/articles/2009/12/16/19749/eight-days-week

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Melody
03rd Nov 2016 05:10

.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Melody
03rd Nov 2016 05:07

I agree with DJKL that a difference of just a few pounds is probably due to timing of the annual increase, where the end of a tax year may fall in between 4-weekly pension payments (which are paid in arrears.) Have a look at the first and last payments of the tax year.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Melody
03rd Nov 2016 05:11

.

Thanks (0)
Red Kite
By Red Kite
03rd Nov 2016 09:19

I think Melody may have an itch?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Joe Soap
07th Nov 2016 21:33

Why cant the Pensions "Service" just provide a figure for the tax year as well as the weekly figure - which is not used for anything?
I mean they gave up making us stick stamps onto NI cards at least five years ago.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By MDK45
01st Jul 2020 16:28

I know this is an old thread so hopefully people still pick it up. So what was the definite answer as I'm confused. It appears from a linked thread that HMRC use an accrued basis to report rather than received so where is my calculation below incorrect?

Amount days

06/04/2019 - 13/04/2019 132.87 8.00 151.85
14/04/2019 - 05/04/2020 136.28 358.00 6,969.75

7,121.60
7,087.00 HMRC info to help
34.60 Difference

Adding to this, tax code notice for 19/20 states 7083 and not 7087. A double part reconcilation although I suspect the second part is roundings of 4 (Seriously?)

Thanks (0)
Replying to MDK45:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
01st Jul 2020 16:27

The issue is that there are more than 52 weeks in the year. The letter Lion refers to works in weeks.
I just use HMRC figure unless miles out
Codings regularly differ from the figure on Website information

Thanks (1)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By MDK45
01st Jul 2020 16:40

Ok so ignoring the difference between the website and coding. Then are you stating that the HMRC number is based upon the physical payments in the year compared to my accrual? I can't back into the difference though and all elements of the pension are taxable elements.

Thanks (0)
Replying to MDK45:
avatar
By Wanderer
01st Jul 2020 16:47

Assuming no in year changes just take 13 x the second (or later) 4 weekly payment in the tax year, ignore the first one for a slightly lower amount.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Wanderer:
avatar
By MDK45
01st Jul 2020 17:06

Which ignores the lower rate for week 1. I thought pension income was on an accrual basis.

Thanks (0)
Replying to MDK45:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
01st Jul 2020 16:50

No
HMRC will not be far adrift from 52 x the new weekly pension.
HMRC use the pension taxpayer entitled to.
Payments made will always be wrong, first pay day in April will include some pension from prior year at old rate. Mirror image that on the following April as not all pension he is entitled to actually paid in the year.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
avatar
By MDK45
01st Jul 2020 17:02

But ignoring the payments as I'm just comparing the annual pension letter with the coding/website number. 52 x 136.28 (new rate) = 7086.56 which is near as damm it to their 7087 number but that then suggests HMRC aren't using an accrual based on a mix of old and new rate and are just assuming it's 52 x new rate even though new rate kicks in a week later in the tax year?

Thanks (0)
Replying to MDK45:
avatar
By Wanderer
01st Jul 2020 17:09

No, taxable is all about entitlement, not what's paid. Entitlement is the new rate x 52. Paid is 1 x old rate + 51 x new rate.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Wanderer:
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Jul 2020 17:14

Wanderer wrote:
Paid is 1 x old rate + 51 x new rate.

Could be 2 and 50

Or 3 and 49

Or even 4 and 48

Not to mention similar options for a 53 week year.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By Wanderer
01st Jul 2020 17:24

I was responding to MDK45's situation.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Wanderer:
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Jul 2020 17:38

Wanderer wrote:

I was responding to MDK45's situation.

Ah right - I didn't see him post a payment date.

Thanks (0)
Replying to MDK45:
avatar
By Paul Crowley
01st Jul 2020 17:31

MDK45 wrote:

I know this is an old thread so hopefully people still pick it up. So what was the definite answer as I'm confused. It appears from a linked thread that HMRC use an accrued basis to report rather than received so where is my calculation below incorrect?

Amount days

06/04/2019 - 13/04/2019 132.87 8.00 151.85
14/04/2019 - 05/04/2020 136.28 358.00 6,969.75

7,121.60
7,087.00 HMRC info to help
34.60 Difference

Adding to this, tax code notice for 19/20 states 7083 and not 7087. A double part reconcilation although I suspect the second part is roundings of 4 (Seriously?)

the right figure is 52 times 136.28 £7086.56

Thanks (1)
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Jul 2020 17:08

You either get your week's pension at the old rate or the new rate.

There's no apportioning to 5th April.

But you may get some weeks at the old rate and some at the new rate in your four-weekly payment. As it happens, I didn't get a mixed payment this year. The April payments was four weeks at the old rate and the May payments was four weeks at the new rate.

Number of weeks depends on the number of Sundays in the tax year - irrespective of the payday.

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Jul 2020 17:43

lionofludesch wrote:

Number of weeks depends on the number of Sundays in the tax year - irrespective of the payday.

Or is it Mondays ?

Jaysus - I used to know that.

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
01st Jul 2020 17:09

..

Thanks (0)
avatar
By MDK45
01st Jul 2020 17:23

Thanks guys. I'm seeing a reconciliation that isn't needed then! The pension letters could be a bit more expansive i.e. your new pension from 6/4 will be x reflecting in your payments from y !

Thanks (0)