Informing HMRC no Class 1A is due

Informing HMRC no Class 1A is due

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Now that there is no PAYE end of year questionnaire to complete, do all employers that don't submit P11D forms have to inform HMRC that there is no Class 1A due? Or is it just employers that have submitted P11D's in the past?

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RedFive
By RedFive
06th Apr 2016 17:46

no

Nil returns are not required.

 

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By daviddaniels
06th Apr 2016 17:57

Structured email?

What's the purpose of the structured email then? 

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/EXBENoRtn?dept-name=&sub-dept...

 

 

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By nogammonsinanundoubledgame
06th Apr 2016 18:04

I was worried about this also

Where no forms P11D are filed, How is HMRC going to determine to whom to send penalty notices for non-submission? Or perhaps they simply are not going to do any? I find that hard to believe.

In the past, they have issued a P11D(b) notice to file, plus payslip, based on a hotch potch of criteria such as whether the P35 ticked the box saying will be sent later, and whether any P11Ds were filed for the previous year.

Sometimes, with a PAYE 64-8 we could see online if a notice to file has been issued, but we were never able to download a list of all such notices for authorised clients, which meant that the only way to tell was to go into each taxpayer's record (and that was not totally reliable even then).

So what happens now?

With kind regards

Clint Westwood

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By DMGbus
06th Apr 2016 21:21

HMRC guidance ("news") 7 March 2016

" If you don’t submit any P11D forms, use the online forms service or email to tell HM Revenue and Customs you don’t owe Class 1A National Insurance."

Source:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/paye-no-return-of-class-1a-na...

The above webpage gives two options to report no class 1A NIC liablity:

Log in via Government GatewayStructured eMail

Inference is that potentially unwelcome correspondence (penalties for reportimng nothing?) from HMRC will potentially arise if a "no class 1A NIC due" report is not made.    I suppose it's just part of HMRC's current interpretation of "simplification". (Some might say that it's a strategy to increase penalties by ambiguity).

 

Employer Bulletin 58 (Feb 2016) said the following:

Reporting benefits provided
The removal of the End of Year Checklist does not affect an employer’s obligation to
report on time:
• all expenses and benefits provided on forms P11D and P9D
• the amount of Class 1A National Insurance due on all the expenses and benefits
provided on form P11D(b).

Where no benefits have been paid during the tax year ending 5 April 2016 and a
form P11D(b) or P11D(b) reminder is received
, employers can either:
• submit a ‘nil’ return
• complete the ‘2015-16 Employer – No return of Class 1A’ form.
to advise us that they have no P11D to submit and no Class 1A return to make.
The online ‘no return to make’ form will be available from 6 April 2016.
The deadline for submitting returns of Expenses and Benefits forms (P11D, P9D
and P11D(b)) is 6 July 2016.

So based on EB58 it is only where a notice to deliver a P11D(b) is issued that is mandatory to make a nil return.  

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Replying to Wanderer:
RedFive
By RedFive
07th Apr 2016 08:39

Agree with DMGBus

DMGbus wrote:

So based on EB58 it is only where a notice to deliver a P11D(b) is issued that is mandatory to make a nil return.  

That is my understanding.

My reading of the structured email also ties in with this. It asks-

"Have you already told HM Revenue & Customs on the Employer Annual Return (form P35) or Real Time Information (RTI) equivalent, or by sending a form, that completed forms P11D and P11D(b) are not due?

If you have answered ‘Yes’ you do not need to complete this form but it's optional if you wish to do so."

Now, the main problem with this is that I believe the P35 (which doesn't actually exist anymore) or RTi equivalent is not looked at or processed by HMRC. My payroll software (moneysoft) does report it (tick 'no' for no expenses or benefits due etc) therefore I ain't doing it twice. Unless I get a notice to file, as above.

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By PALacc
06th Apr 2016 22:46

So if no p11d request is made and no expenses or benefits are made then this form is not required under EB58?

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By PracticePartner
07th Apr 2016 11:36

Waste of time

My payroll software (Brightpay) removed the EOY declaration which is correct, but why oh why didn't HMRC retain this element of it to avoid it becoming a separate step in the process.

There is likely to be a raft of pointless correspondence where HMRC claim they sent a notice to deliver a P11Db and the client or agent claims they never received one.

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By nogammonsinanundoubledgame
07th Apr 2016 11:50

just been on the blower

I have just been on the blower to online services helpdesk to ask whether there is a facility to download a CSV file or similar report that simply lists all employer schemes for which our PAYE agent code has full 64-8/FBI2 authority and which have been issued with an employer notice to file P11D(b).  No such luck.

Not that I am expecting any P11D(b) notices to go out until the 3rd week of April, judging by previous years, but when it happens that would be SUCH a useful report (and would have been no less useful in previous years) that it beggars belief that it is not available.

The CT online system managed to instigate a system of monthly reports of notices to file issued, tied to the agent.  In that case it was not of much help, because pretty much every company had to file a CT600 anyway.  But for hit-and-miss P11D reporting it would really have had value.  Instead it would appear that we are going to bave to click into the employer notices link of each employer client on an individual case by case basis.  Ugh!

With kind regards

Clint Westwood

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By daviddaniels
07th Apr 2016 13:22

.

As I don't have many payrolls, I thought I'd send the HMRC email to let them know no Class 1A is due, should only add a couple of minutes to the year end. So far I've sent 2, and I've received an acknowledgement for the second one, but not the first!!!

Isn't technology supposed to make life easier?

 

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