IRIS VAT Filer

Unable to import .xlsx

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Morning all, 

Just been on the phone with IRIS as I've been unable to import a spreadsheet into their filing software. The guy on the phone just said, "Use this CSV template instead." When you use a CSV you are only saving the first page of information hence you lose the magical 'digital links' anyway.. Also it's a bit of a messy process.

Has anyone out there managed to import an .xlsx file into the VAT filer? If so do you have any hints and tips to get it in there?

Thanks

Replies (19)

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By Duggimon
10th Jul 2019 11:59

That's what I've been using, had no problems at all.

What's the issue you're having, where does it all fall over?

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By johnhemming
10th Jul 2019 12:11

You don't lose the concept of there being a digital link by saving a single worksheet as a CSV file. Hence this process would be 1/4/20 compliant by using "Save AS" and specifying CSV.

On this occasion the "Guy on the phone" from Iris is right.

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Replying to johnhemming:
By Duggimon
10th Jul 2019 12:16

IRIS VAT Filer is built to accept spreadsheets and the OP's problem is either his software not working properly or something is wrong with his process.

"Guy on the phone" is either lazy or unable/unwilling to help fix the problem, personally I hate it when something has clearly gone wrong and the software provider gives a workaround instead of actually fixing things to work as specified.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By johnhemming
10th Jul 2019 16:55

I don't claim any expert knowledge of IRIS, but when CSV file is saved from Excel or Open Office it tends to save only one worksheet. That means that the raw data (results of any formulae) is saved rather than the links and the original data. However, this is still a digital link.

Whether IRIS imports from XLSX or only from CSV transferring a CSV is still a digital link.

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Replying to johnhemming:
Tornado
By Tornado
10th Jul 2019 17:11

You are right, of course but I still find it difficult to find a difference between extracting data from a .csv file (which is acceptable to HMRC) and data transferred by copy and paste (which is not). Both are digital transactions and the latter can ONLY be carried out digitally, there is no other way, yet is is still not classed as a digital transaction by HMRC.

As mentioned above, this is all a load of extraordinarily expensive and complex nonsense just to transmit a few figures to HMRC.

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Replying to Tornado:
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By johnhemming
11th Jul 2019 10:49

HMRC accept the use of the clipboard if it is mapped automatically rather than just pasted.

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Replying to johnhemming:
By Duggimon
11th Jul 2019 09:02

The digital link has to be from the return to the transaction level data. The CSV does not contain the transaction level data and is not linked to anything that does, therefore the digital link is broken.

I appreciate what the IRIS guy has said will work but I disagree with the assertion that it's compliant.

It's also not what the question was about, the question was asking for help getting an .xlsx file to work in IRIS, which is perfectly possible and something I thought I could help with if the OP hadn't just immediately vanished.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By johnhemming
11th Jul 2019 09:29

A digital link can work in a single direction. It quite clearly is compliant. If you wish to argue this then I will hunt up the parts of vat notice 700 22 that confirm this.

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Replying to johnhemming:
By Duggimon
11th Jul 2019 09:37

If you could that'd be grand, thanks. I am pretty sure 700/22 is nowhere near specific enough to confirm what you're saying.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By johnhemming
11th Jul 2019 09:48

Here is 700/22

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-70022-making-tax-d...

I say: "Digital links basically mean that the figures that go into the API are automatically calculated from the list of transactions".

HMRC says: "HMRC also accepts that the following are digital links:

emailing a spreadsheet containing digital records so the information can be imported into another software product
transferring a set of digital records onto a portable device (for example, a pen drive, memory stick, flash drive) and physically giving this to someone else who then imports that data into their software
XML, CSV import and export, and download and upload of files
automated data transfer
API transfer
This list is not exhaustive."

When a CSV file is created it loses all of the formulae (normally) and by your analysis the "digital link is broken". Actually the digital link is not broken.

What is true is that if the underlying data is to be changed then the CSV export should be done again. However, this is just the same as the examples that HMRC give. Where a spreadsheet with the summary figures is emailed to an accountant then that maintains a digital link as the figures are not being retyped.

It is not necessary to have a single piece of software that contains all of the records. Quoting form another section of the vat notice: "HMRC expects that there will be software products available that will perform all of the functions listed above. Some software programs will not be able to perform all of these functions by themselves. For example, a spreadsheet or other software product that is capable of recording and preserving digital records may not be able to perform the other 2 functions listed above, but can still be a component of functional compatible software if it is used together with one or more programs that do perform those functions."

The obvious example is the API transfer which only has the 9 boxes of data (plus a few other things that are not really material)

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Replying to johnhemming:
By Duggimon
11th Jul 2019 10:27

Thanks John, detailed as always.

It seems a really stupid system but I can't argue that HMRC do appear to be saying what you're saying. I would still argue that it's not in any meaningful way a digital link, but it is indeed what HMRC consider a digital link.

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Replying to Duggimon:
Tornado
By Tornado
11th Jul 2019 10:39

The bottom line is that HMRC have written their own definitions as to what a Digital Link is, and that what we must use no matter how illogical or nonsensical it may seem.

Anyway, I am off for a bike ride shortly to Scotland. (In my world a car is defined as a 'bike' so please all remember that no matter how illogical or nonsensical it may seem, this is my definition of a car).

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By johnhemming
11th Jul 2019 10:47

The theory as I see it is that they want to ensure that the figures are automatically calculated and that digital links are what is required to ensure that the figures are automatically calculated.

It is helpful to have these discussions as it helps me clarify in my mind precisely what the current situation is in terms of what people need to do.

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By Pottedbeef
20th Aug 2019 11:41

Haha I'm sorry about that. I vanished on holiday to the States where MTD and the associated mild annoyances did not exist.

I get to the point where the spreadsheet is imported, I can see my workings for Boxes 1-9 on the left of the screen and on the right is the IRIS blank matrix for me to point my numbers to. This is where the problem arises. Everything is greyed out and I can't tell IRIS to 'use cell A5 as the Box 1 number'.

Does the spreadsheet need to be in a particular format?

Again apologies for the delay in responding

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Replying to Pottedbeef:
By Duggimon
20th Aug 2019 11:46

Within IRIS VAT Filer, right click on the cell in the spreadsheet with the number you want to use, you should get a context menu that allows you to allocate it to a particular box on the return.

If that's what you're already doing then I'm stuck, I have no idea why it wouldn't work, I've never had a problem.

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Replying to Pottedbeef:
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By johnhemming
20th Aug 2019 15:37

If you can't work out why it doesn't work and cannot get through on IRIS helpline then try some other bridging software.

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Tornado
By Tornado
10th Jul 2019 14:28

For many years the spreadsheet accounting software I created automatically worked out the VAT figures and placed the results in a set of 9 boxes. It was then easy to type those results straight into the Gateway Portal. Easy

For MTD for VAT, it should be just as easy by extracting a .csv file of those 9 boxes and importing that file into TaxCalc VAT Filer, and it was. Mapping in VAT Filer still had to be done, but there were only 9 cells to map.

Most of our Spreadsheet accounting software, however, is not in Excel and facilitates the export of just a selection of cells easily, so no problems there.

Now move on to Excel based but similar accounting software and crikey, there is no facility for exporting a selection of cells in a .csv format. It seems that you have to export the whole spreadsheet and then search all over to find the individual cells with the information you want and then map them to VAT Filer.

A solution to this was required, so I created a new worksheet and 'mapped' the location of the information I require on to this from the main worksheet, into the first 9 boxes in the top left hand corner. It was easy to do as they are altogether anyway but it would still work if the information was spread about on the main worksheet. just take a little longer to locate the cells. I then end up with the required information in 9 cells on a dedicated worksheet for the quarter. It is then possible to just export that worksheet as a .csv file (with just 9 cells) which can then be imported into VAT Filer or whatever bridging software you have.

The location of each quarter's VAT information on the main worksheet is different for each quarter so I have mapped a total of 4 additional worksheets to automatically pick up the relevant information for each quarter.

Take care to ensure that Formula round figures to two places in most cases or to no places for summary totals. If cells are set to display two or no decimal points the underlying totals may actually be many decimal places which can give false totals if several are added together, as when manipulating cell data, the actual figures are used and not the ones you see displayed in the cell.

I am assuming that linked worksheets in a single workbook are acceptable for keeping data digital for MTD for VAT purposes. Back to the drawing board if not.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
10th Jul 2019 15:10

The amount of time and effort that is going into not typing 4 numbers is mind boggling.

For our few I selected as a test run this quarter, a couple were easy to copy from the normal templates we use, and one was easier to type, so I typed it. I don't fear imminent arrest from HMRC for my transgression.

HMRC simply don't know how you get there, so I wouldn't worry about it. Nor do they have the resources to come snooping and checking up, and even if they did you would need to be quite dim to tell 'em!

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Replying to ireallyshouldknowthisbut:
Tornado
By Tornado
10th Jul 2019 15:27

The OP mentioned a template supplied by IRIS and TaxCalc have one too. You simply type the figures into the template and the VAT Filer picks up the information from there.

Definitely not in accordance with the rules and a bit naughty if you have signed up for MTD for VAT and confirmed that you had the necessary accounting software when you didn't.

I do tend to agree, however, that nobody is going to check up and, quite frankly, who really cares?

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