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Jul furlough calculation

Jul days vs hours calculations

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Has anyone find that the current calcultor differs from the prvious ones? In theory i would think they should arrive the same value as they are proptionally calculated, but i find it could arrive different values? 

We have employees were fully furloughed but ended in July, some were continously on furlough from Apr and back to work usual hours in the middle of July,  a couple of them started in Apr and then worked three days a week instead of their usual five days a week.

I used the online calculator early July, and compared to the current one, the ealier version used days for Jul instead of hours and gave a much higher claim value.

Say an employee who normally works 20 hours five days a week  and get paid a regular £1000 a month returned to work on 20th July,  on day basis, that would be calulated as 1000 divided by 31 days then times 19 days furloughed then times 80%, which gave £ 490.32 furlough grant. But if based on hours,  88.75 usual hours ( 20 hours divided by 7 times 31 ); 40 hours actual hours worked , 48.75 furloughed hours;  it would be calculated as £1000 divided by 88.75 then times 48.75 , then times 80% equals £439.44, so there is a £50.88 difference. 

Is there anything wrong with the calculations above? 

On the second scenario, the old calculator also gave the calculation for proportion of days instead of the whole July, and allowed calculation of hours for the flexible furlough of a section of July.

Unfortunately i did not print off the old calculation, merely noted down the figures. 

Would I be able to claim using the old calculation or do i have to use the current version? 

Thanks.

Replies (9)

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By tom123
04th Aug 2020 12:14

Are you not comparing apples and pears?

Under phase one, you had a start and stop date - but not flexibility as such.

Phase two is with flexibility, and on hours.

Yes, I get that the basis is weird, and hence different now, but it is what it is?

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By louised
04th Aug 2020 13:37

I think if you ask HMRC they may say otherwise. We had an employee returning to work on 13th July after being on furlough, HMRC said not to use flexible furlough so we worked it out as per the original method of normal pay/days in month*furlough days*80%

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Replying to louised:
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By Wanderer
04th Aug 2020 13:52

ALL employees are "flexibly-furloughed employees" if they are on furlough at any time in a 1 July on claim period, even if they are furloughed for the whole of the claim period. You can't use the old rules to calculate the claim.

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Replying to louised:
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By Smalltalk
04th Aug 2020 16:03

louised wrote:

I think if you ask HMRC they may say otherwise. We had an employee returning to work on 13th July after being on furlough, HMRC said not to use flexible furlough so we worked it out as per the original method of normal pay/days in month*furlough days*80%

Thanks for the feedback. I tried the HMRC web contact, and the agent said either calculator should be fine.

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Replying to Smalltalk:
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By kathyk0410
04th Aug 2020 16:48

Thanks for the confirmation as we had calculated full furlough for the first part of the month and then flexi for the rest when the employee had entered a flexi furlough agreement. However what hours are you supposed to put on the claim as if you just put the flexi hours it won't make sense .... presumably total month's average hours with hours worked though if HMRC checked the furlough amounts wouldn't agree as per the OP. Would only be evident if there was 1 employee.

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Replying to kathyk0410:
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By Smalltalk
05th Aug 2020 16:16

kathyk0410 wrote:

Thanks for the confirmation as we had calculated full furlough for the first part of the month and then flexi for the rest when the employee had entered a flexi furlough agreement. However what hours are you supposed to put on the claim as if you just put the flexi hours it won't make sense .... presumably total month's average hours with hours worked though if HMRC checked the furlough amounts wouldn't agree as per the OP. Would only be evident if there was 1 employee.

Hi, that's why i found it a bit confusing, and wanted to find some reassurance.

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By jules66
05th Aug 2020 01:36

I have also come across this with an employee who was fully furloughed and then returned to work mid July working their usual hours.(monthly payroll) I used the HMRC calculator to check the calculations and it used days. Had similar situation a few days later with another client and the HMRC calculator had changed, it seems that you can't return to work on your usual hours, but have to be flexibly furloughed? I also used the days calculation and my own manually calculated figures.

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Replying to jules66:
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By louised
05th Aug 2020 15:55

yes from what I can see the online calculator no longer asks about top up either which it used to, so has the apportioning of the pension and NI also been abandoned now?

We're just using the days method for anyone who has returned full time but part way through the pay period, and the hours method for everyone else who is doing flexible working.

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Replying to jules66:
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By Smalltalk
05th Aug 2020 16:18

thanks for sharing your experience.

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