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Just another average day trying to deal with HMRC

Just another average day trying to deal with HMRC

Didn't find your answer?

So early in June I sent HMRC the following:

1 form SA400

3 forms SA401

3 forms 64-8

Only sent 3 64-8s as we already act for one of the partners.

Nothing happens for six weeks until today I receive letter from CAAT - ''sorry we can not deal with the enclosed 64-8 you sent us unless you enclose either forms SA400, SA401 or SA402!

No phone number on the letter and of course no way that I am aware of that you can ring the CAAT to ask them to sort themselves out.

Replies (30)

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By Berkshire Lass
24th Jul 2015 15:00

I guess the banging I can hear is your head hitting the desk repeatedly!!!!

I have started to either staple all enclosures or treasury tag them so HMRC cannot easily separate them.

I found this number on some old corres with the CAAT team which might still be in service.

0845 9000444

Good luck

Thanks (1)
Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
24th Jul 2015 17:58

HMRC guidance

If you look at the HMRC guidance it says:

"You can help speed up the processing of authorisation by:

...stapling forms CWF1 or SA1 and 64-8 together, if submitting the forms at the same time"

The same presumably applies to the partnership forms.  I am afraid this is of no help to you now.

Thanks (1)
Replying to NicoleM:
Morph
By kevinringer
04th Aug 2015 14:06

HMRC last "written" guidance was not to staple

Euan MacLennan wrote:

If you look at the HMRC guidance it says:

"You can help speed up the processing of authorisation by:

...stapling forms CWF1 or SA1 and 64-8 together, if submitting the forms at the same time"

The same presumably applies to the partnership forms.  I am afraid this is of no help to you now.

About 10 years ago HMRC wrote to all agents to tell them NOT to staple but to use treasury tags. HMRC have not written to agents to tell them to staple so many are unaware of the current guidance.

Thanks (0)
PJ
By paulgrca.net
27th Jul 2015 13:21

Yes forms were

stapled together.

Just sent a letter of complaint together with photo-copies of everything I originally submitted - if I'm lucky might get a reply before Christmas!

 

Thanks (1)
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By The Innkeeper
27th Jul 2015 13:30

@paulgrca

which Christmas do you have in mind?

Thanks (5)
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By Vaughan Blake1
27th Jul 2015 16:55

Use plan B

I only send in 64-8s when I have a UTR.  It always seems to cause a problem otherwise.  (not that plan B is always problem free!) 

Thanks (1)
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By jloboyle
27th Jul 2015 16:59

Returning 64-8

The best yet is when, having sent everything in together stapled and clearly showing what each 64-8 is for, HMRC then return the 64-8 clearly shown as being in respect of the partnership back to you TWICE because a national insurance number has not been shown on the 64-8!! And almost nine weeks later it has still not be processed.

Thanks (1)
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By silverghost
03rd Aug 2015 11:35

silly habit

Why do you feel the need to start a sentence with the word "so"?

Thanks (2)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
By Democratus
03rd Aug 2015 12:10

This seems to be a trend

silverghost wrote:

Why do you feel the need to start a sentence with the word "so"?

Not denigrating the OP but it is becoming more and more prevalent, especially on "market experts" on Radio 4 Today business slot. 

I may be a bit of and old goat now, why does shouting at the radio not stop it.

Also watching the Anniversary athletics games on Beeb a couple of weeks ago i was almost hoarse shouting at the TV. 2 reasons

I had already seen the ariel shot of stadium the previous 15 times they had broadcast it that day....just because you paid for a helicopter doesn't mean we have to see all the angles possible.Stop showing me presenters talking when clearly there were "real athletes" in the background actually doing stuff.

OK i am well of topic, bloodpressure rising and ......Nurse Nurse where are my happy pills. 

 

Thanks (4)
Replying to justsotax:
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By martinatal
03rd Aug 2015 19:22

Ariel

... to further increase your blood pressure "aerial". (I believe that Ariel is a washing powder.)

Thanks (0)
Replying to Richard Hattersley:
By Democratus
04th Aug 2015 08:35

Thanks Martinatal

martinatal wrote:

... to further increase your blood pressure "aerial". (I believe that Ariel is a washing powder.)

I think I did get it right and then changed my mind - something to do with the happy pills I think.

Thanks (0)
Replying to Richard Hattersley:
Hallerud at Easter
By DJKL
04th Aug 2015 09:54

Or perhaps

martinatal wrote:

... to further increase your blood pressure "aerial". (I believe that Ariel is a washing powder.)

Also a  demon/similar in "The Tempest"

"All hail, great master! grave sir, hail! I come 
To answer thy best pleasure; be't to fly, 
To swim, to dive into the fire, to ride 
On the curl'd clouds, to thy strong bidding task 

Ariel and all his quality."

Thanks (0)
Replying to Paul Crowley:
Morph
By kevinringer
04th Aug 2015 14:09

So so

silverghost wrote:

Why do you feel the need to start a sentence with the word "so"?

So you know what we're saying.
Thanks (1)
By glj
03rd Aug 2015 12:09

I experienced the same thing last week!

I submitted the SA401's and the SA400 together with the accompanying 64-8's to the Revenue on the 12th June. On the 30th July, I received the partnership 64-8 back from them together with a letter stating that it could not be processed without the other forms.

I wrote back to them stating in no uncertain terms that all of the documentation to register the partnership was sent to them under one cover and that it was obvious that someone at the Revenue had disseminated the papers to far flung corners of their office and thus it is their fault that the partnership cannot be registered.    

Attached to this reply were copies of the original covering letter and the signed documents. I also pointed out that they should now accept these copies as originals because returning to the client would only raise the question of "What has the Revenue done with the originals?", which would only help to highlight their incompetence.

I now live in hope that the partnership will be registered this side of the January SA deadline.

Thanks (2)
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By katekinsella.hotmail.com
03rd Aug 2015 12:12

Better yet

I sent SA400 and SA401 in last July (2014) for a wife who had joined her husband in partnership.

A month ago (and after numerous fruitless phone calls on my part) I sent in duplicate paperwork for the third time, marked 'Official Complaint', and by recorded delivery and have still heard nothing.

In the absence of a phone number, I rang the usual agents dedicated 'help' line last week and was told that post is now 3 months behind! Once again I a told that my problem has been escalated, so we will see if I get another snippy phone call telling me it is nothing to do with them!

Watch this space!

 

(how does one make a formal complaint to HMRC these days? Does anyone know?)

Thanks (1)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By adramforall
03rd Aug 2015 12:40

Revenue complaint, waste of time however

katekinsella.hotmail.com wrote:

I sent SA400 and SA401 in last July (2014) for a wife who had joined her husband in partnership.

A month ago (and after numerous fruitless phone calls on my part) I sent in duplicate paperwork for the third time, marked 'Official Complaint', and by recorded delivery and have still heard nothing.

In the absence of a phone number, I rang the usual agents dedicated 'help' line last week and was told that post is now 3 months behind! Once again I a told that my problem has been escalated, so we will see if I get another snippy phone call telling me it is nothing to do with them!

Watch this space!

 

(how does one make a formal complaint to HMRC these days? Does anyone know?)

 

When you feel you are getting nowhere with HMRC frontline then use the AAM service, which I can highly recommend.   I have used several times and what needed done has been sorted within a week.       https://www.gov.uk/agent-account-managers-in-hmrc. 

 

Thanks (1)
Replying to Tax Dragon:
By taxbakbristol
03rd Aug 2015 14:21

COMPLAINTS

My current complaint is now 18 months into a succession of time wasting, incorrect letters .Some letters NEVER reach me. You MUST ask for 2 Reviews before you can send the complaint to THE Adjudicator. I did this in JUNE , still waiting for any sort of reply from them ! The whole thing is ...............................

 A WASTE of TIME!

HMRC are in free fall , they will self destruct soon - I hope!

 

Thanks (1)
Replying to K81:
By SteveHa
03rd Aug 2015 16:41

I hope not

taxbakbristol wrote:

HMRC are in free fall , they will self destruct soon - I hope!

My entire career depends on there being an HMRC, and preferably an incompetent one.

Thanks (2)
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By The Innkeeper
03rd Aug 2015 12:17

@katekinsella

These days whenever I need paper 64-8s etc signed  I always get the client to sign at least two copies so that when HMRC claim that they have lost the forms it is quite simple to send new ones off by special delivery.

 

Thanks (2)
BirdnCo
By BirdnCo
03rd Aug 2015 12:32

Use On-line authorisation

We never send in 64-8's nowadays for the reasons above. We register clients for the various taxes on-line and when UTR's etc are know, we request authorisation codes be issued and have only had the odd problem. Clients then send us the authorisation code and we are duly authorised.

It could be HMRC are attempting to get agents to use the on-line services, which could account for the problems with 64-8's, not that I'm sceptical mind?

Thanks (3)
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By Sheila Morrison
03rd Aug 2015 12:37

64-8

Why are you sending paper forms 64-8 at all? We stopped this practice years ago. Applying on-line for agent authorisation much simpler and quicker. AND is what they want you to do so keeps everyone happy and done and dusted within a couple of weeks.

Taxgirlsheila

Thanks (1)
Replying to lionofludesch:
By glj
03rd Aug 2015 14:41

All well and good, but...

Sheila Morrison wrote:

Why are you sending paper forms 64-8 at all? We stopped this practice years ago. Applying on-line for agent authorisation much simpler and quicker. AND is what they want you to do so keeps everyone happy and done and dusted within a couple of weeks.

Taxgirlsheila

The reason that paper 64-8's were sent with the partnership registration forms was because there were no UTR's in issue. Therefore, online authorisation would not be possible until the SA401's and SA400 were processed and UTR's generated for the client. Which brings us back to the bone on contention in this thread as the Revenue seems to have lost the partnership registration forms.

BirdnCo does however raise a good point as perhaps online registration of clients is the way to go since HMRC seem to be gearing down its paper processing capabilities or at least making it as shambolic as possible so as to force everyone online.

Thanks (1)
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By Sarah K Dunks
03rd Aug 2015 16:51

64-8 v online authorisation

Anyone had any recent experience of HMRC not speaking to you if you don't have a 64-8?  I found in the past that online authorisation wasn't enough for dealing with VAT and payroll enquiries.  However online authorisation was fine for self assessment enquiries.

Thanks (1)
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By philomena
03rd Aug 2015 21:49

I have just posted a question re bad organization with HMRC and then I cam across this POST bad day with HMRC!  I have to say I laughed so much!  Sorry!  But on a practical note WE REALLY SHOULD BE ACTING TOGETHER AND ALSO GOOGLING LIN HOLMER - WE SHOULDGET RID OF HER!

Thanks (1)
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By pauljohnston
04th Aug 2015 09:53

64-8

In an ideal world we would register all clients electonically.  As highlighed on another post you need a 64-8 to talk to/write to PAYE and VAT and I believe CIS.

Thanks (0)
Morph
By kevinringer
04th Aug 2015 14:15

R27

I've experienced this problem since the withdrawal of the R27. We could state who the executor was on the R27 so HMRC then knew who to accept as signatory on the 64-8. Since the withdrawal of the R27 HMRC are relying on the "tell us once" service to learn who the executor is and if the message doesn't get through to HMRC they won't accept a letter from us because the previous 64-8 has expired and they won't accept the new 64-8 because they won't accept our notification of who the executor is!

Crazy situation recently. Big fall out within a family. One member who is not executor phoned HMRC and convinced HMRC that they were the executor. Fortunately HMRC did accept 64-8 (signed by the real executor who was unknown to HMRC at the time) and accepted my instructions to change the estate's contact from the unauthorised family member to the real executor.

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By david.davidreid.biz
05th Aug 2015 10:13

64-8 v online registration

Online is all very well, but there are situations where a paper form has to be used.  Generally this is if the client has changed address and the code would be sent to the old address where redirection may not still be in place.  Also we have had occasions when the information entered online is correct but the submission fails presumably because it does not match HMRC's!

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Replying to petestar1969:
Morph
By kevinringer
05th Aug 2015 10:20

Me too

david.davidreid.biz wrote:

Also we have had occasions when the information entered online is correct but the submission fails presumably because it does not match HMRC's!

Had this problem a lot and HMRC don't tell you that there's a problem. HMRC assume their data is correct but I've had cases where HMRC are wrong so no matter how may times I've sent the correct info it fails. This happens with other areas too eg online notification of cessation of self employmet.
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Morph
By kevinringer
05th Aug 2015 10:24

System error

Another problem is many forms have switched to onscreen completion then print and post eg SA400, but when I go to print a HMRC System Error message appears with a reference number. When I phone HMRC online services they can never trace the reference and can never offer an answer. So I waste loads of time filling in something that used to be quick with a pen. And the new form has to be printed and posted anyway so it isn't an online service. Because so many forms are now switching to onscreen completion I've located PDFs of the common forms (64-8, SA1, CWF1, SA400 etc) and saved them for offline completion. I guess at some point HMRC will stop accepting these but for the time being HMRC does accept them.

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Replying to kevinringer:
By Democratus
05th Aug 2015 13:53

True

kevinringer wrote:

Another problem is many forms have switched to onscreen completion then print and post eg SA400, but when I go to print a HMRC System Error message appears with a reference number. When I phone HMRC online services they can never trace the reference and can never offer an answer. So I waste loads of time filling in something that used to be quick with a pen. And the new form has to be printed and posted anyway so it isn't an online service. Because so many forms are now switching to onscreen completion I've located PDFs of the common forms (64-8, SA1, CWF1, SA400 etc) and saved them for offline completion. I guess at some point HMRC will stop accepting these but for the time being HMRC does accept them.

The forced completion of a supposedly online form, only to be told to then print it out and send it in by mail is ridiculous. I have complained about this several times.

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