Just need a rant!!!!

Just need a rant!!!!

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Just need to let off steam on this - two clients both partners in the same business. Trading now ceased so need to cancel Class 2 for both partners.  Rang the agent helpline - they cannot help with class 2 NI  - need to ring number on NI demand notices. Steam starting to puff out of my ears already ... OK got myself a coffee anticipating long wait - got through to automated call screening - gave details and whey hey! I got through to a human within a couple of minutes. Gave details was given advice - HMRC officer was reading from the guidance on his screen.  Asked if I could give details for the other partner - er No you can't you have to ring back - our call logging system now only allows us to deal with one issue per call. What!!!!....Okaaaay....  called back went through the screening again, got put on hold, but to be fair it got answered reasonably quickly - same set of circumstances, same questions, but I got a different response from that given by the previous HMRC officer.  When I questioned it I was more or less told that I had to decide which bit of advice I took.    What is happening at HMRC???!!!  If fairly simple issues are dealt with in different ways by HMRC officers what hope does anyone have of getting it right! Also why should my clients have to pay for the extra time I have to spend ringing back HMRC when I need to deal with more than one issue when previously I could get it all sorted in one call.  Ludicrous!

Rant over - thankyou for letting me get that off my chest.

Replies (11)

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By The Innkeeper
20th Nov 2013 14:11

there there

go and have a cup of tea and a chockie biscuit - you may have calmed down . I find it works a treat - having a good rant here does as well

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By andrew55
20th Nov 2013 17:37

I'd have written in

In those circumstances I'd have written in and told the client to cancel their direct debit.

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Kieran Phelan
By KPEM online
20th Nov 2013 20:56

Get client to do it
I usually let clients deal with these little things from now on, too many grey hairs appearing for me to keep dealing with minor matters requiring HMRC contact. Or just fire off a letter and tell client to cancel DD, much less stressful.

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By Cloudcounter
21st Nov 2013 08:21

Cancel the direct debit

You can write as often as you like, but it will nearly always be ignored.

But if you cancel the direct debit, that will provoke action and you can then explain why.

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By Jimess
21st Nov 2013 09:49

Thanks all

Had a bit more sleep since then and have calmed down - missed out on the choccie biccy though :)

The clients did not pay Class 2 on DD so I have written in to HMRC and will wait and see.

Thanks for listening - it's good to know there is support out there.

 

 

 

 

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By DMGbus
21st Nov 2013 13:47

Coding out

Take care with stopping the DD - I have always advocated this in the past as it's one thing that grab's HMRC attention!

However, from April 2014 HMRC may code out alleged NIC 2 arrears.

I have always preferred to write to NICO and get the DD stopped at the bank - but if HMRC won't update (or are slow at updating) their systems for the no longer accruing class 2 NIC liability then taxpayers under PAYE should be on the look out for reduced PAYE codes robbing them of class 2 NIC not owed as of April 2014 onwards.

 

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By Kim Griffiths
26th Nov 2013 08:59

Online form

For future reference, there is an online form to inform HMRC of the cessation of self employment - it deals with both tax and Class 2 NIC.

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By WhichTyler
26th Nov 2013 12:40

To be fair...

They have made it relatively clear here: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/dealingwith/changes/close-sell-business.htm and here: https://www.gov.uk/stop-being-self-employed

 

I't just a shame they didn;t make you aware of it before, or refer you to it when you phoned.

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By Jimess
26th Nov 2013 14:21

Thanks for the further comments and the information about the online forms.  I think what really incensed me was being told that I had to ring back for the same query on another client - therefore wasting my time hanging on the line and racking up phone bills, and that I had been given two very different responses to the same issue.  It is OK saying - "there's a form for this and that" but forms take time to fill in and I am from the "Old School" and get very aggravated when simple matters cannot be dealt with over the telephone any more.  Not so very long ago I used to save up all the little niggly queries that I needed to raise with HMRC on various clients and sort them all out in one phone call - you simply can't do that now so you are constantly adding extra time on to clients files.  In some bigger cases it can probably be absorbed, but on the whole smaller clients are much more sensitive to increases in fees so you find it almost impossible to get that extra time billed. 

It is just alienating agents from HMRC even further due to the frustrations of dealing with these simple matters on a day to day basis.

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Replying to Matrix:
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By WhichTyler
26th Nov 2013 14:41

Eh

Jimess wrote:

... forms take time to fill in ...

 

But when you phone up you are just talking to someone who is just filling in the online form for you.

As practice software matures, and HMRC systems improve, there will be fewer and fewer 'niggly queries', and you will simply 'push a button' to notify them that your client has ceased trading, saving everyone time. If HMRC have done something to improve the system, even if it's a small improvement like this, I think it should be recognised. 

Disclaimer: I'm not in practice, so probably have less direct contact with HMRC than you 

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By Jimess
27th Nov 2013 11:30

@whichtyler

Thanks for your comment - paper forms take longer because generally speaking with forms you need to get the client to sign/authorise the information before HMRC will accept it - so it needs to go to client for signature then needs to go to HMRC.

Even with online systems there are niggly queries - I spent a frustrating half hour on the phone yesterday with HMRC trying to sort out a clients  PAYE payments under RTI that had been misallocated to the wrong tax year or simply not allocated at all by HMRC despite the correct period details being quoted with the payments. The HMRC contact I spoke to told me that the system was "not perfect" and they were getting a lot of queries on the same issue.  I have other cases relating to self assessment payments on account where despite numerous attempts HMRC are unable to resolve issues that would in earlier times have just been amended manually by HMRC staff, but the "system" will no longer cater for that particular circumstance. Part of the problem is that not all of the HMRC systems are fully integrated, if indeed they are capable of integration, and this causes frustration on all sides because it results in enquiries being passed from pillar to post until it eventually lands on the desk of someone who can deal with it.  I don't agree that niggly queries will disappear as no system, no matter how good it is, has cast iron fault free guarantees, and no system can cater for every eventuality that might turn up - and I personally think it is actually going the other way.  It is as frustrating for HMRC staff as it is for us. HMRC are chipping away at trying to "centralise" everything, but there is a real need for human intervention rather than making it difficult for the public to deal with HMRC.  The issue in my original post was just a straw that broke the camel's back at that point in time.

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