Land Rover Defender - is this a van?

Vehicle has 2 seats in the front, no back windows - does this meet conditions of van?

Didn't find your answer?

Client looking to purchase a Land Rover Defender 90 or 110.  Salesman advises that this is a commercial vehicle and it does only have 2 seats in the front and no side windows.  I'd be grateful with any thoughts as to whether the VAT can be reclaimed and if it would be classed as a BIK for a car.  I'm just not convinced it can be classed as a van but with the lack of seats has it got a good case?

Thanks

Replies (22)

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Ivor Windybottom
By Ivor Windybottom
19th Jun 2024 08:59

This vehicle is crying out for a Court ruling or some HMRC "guidance".

Clearly it is constructed for the conveyance of goods, but given the limited load space is this primarily constructed for this?

There are various other small load vans (e.g. Peugeot 206, Ford Fiesta) that appear to meet the definition of a van for tax purposes, so maybe that should provide some comfort that it can be taxed as a van.

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By Paul Crowley
19th Jun 2024 09:19

Is the load space bigger than the space for people?
That is the question to answer.

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
Ivor Windybottom
By Ivor Windybottom
19th Jun 2024 09:39

Yes, but you may need to consider whether you can exclude the driver's space, as all vehicles require a driver.

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By Duggimon
19th Jun 2024 09:38

Assuming it's the same one I investigated for a client a couple of months ago then I would say it's a van. The one I looked at the cargo space was entirely shut off from the front cabin and had no seats in it. Payload of about 1.5 tonnes I think.

Clearly it seems odd because Land Rovers are typically cars but HMRC can't have it both ways. If van shaped things are deemed cars by their suitability and use then car shaped things can be deemed vans by the same rules.

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Replying to DJKL:
Ivor Windybottom
By Ivor Windybottom
19th Jun 2024 09:58

If only HMRC would expand and update this list!

It is now very out of date (19/5/2015) and doesn't include current LR Defenders, so only of help for old car-derived vans.

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By Truthsayer
19th Jun 2024 10:17

I've looked at this very question for one of my clients, and my view was that a 2 seater Land Rover meets the definition of a van for all tax purposes. I have not seen this view challenged by HMRC in any case law.

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Replying to Truthsayer:
DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jun 2024 15:39

Agreed - a client of mine has a SWB Landrover for drystone walling and it definitely meets the definition for a van And having ridden in the passenger seat I can confirm its far too uncomfortable to carry humans so it cant be a car.

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Replying to Truthsayer:
DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jun 2024 15:39

Agreed - a client of mine has a SWB Landrover for drystone walling and it definitely meets the definition for a van And having ridden in the passenger seat I can confirm its far too uncomfortable to carry humans so it cant be a car.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Truthsayer:
DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jun 2024 15:39

Agreed - a client of mine has a SWB Landrover for drystone walling and it definitely meets the definition for a van And having ridden in the passenger seat I can confirm its far too uncomfortable to carry humans so it cant be a car.

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Replying to Truthsayer:
DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jun 2024 15:39

ggt

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Replying to Truthsayer:
DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jun 2024 15:39

Agreed - a client of mine has a SWB Landrover for drystone walling and it definitely meets the definition for a van And having ridden in the passenger seat I can confirm its far too uncomfortable to carry humans so it cant be a car.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Dougscott:
By Ruddles
19th Jun 2024 15:47

We get the message ;-)

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By FactChecker
19th Jun 2024 17:12

Presumably typed whilst being given a lift in client's car over a typically pot-hole strewn road?

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Replying to FactChecker:
DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jun 2024 18:10

Yes, it's a bumpy ride and it's hard to be sure you've hit the submit button!

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Replying to Dougscott:
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By Truthsayer
23rd Jun 2024 16:07

You can say that again.

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By brumsub
21st Jun 2024 09:46

I generally look at comcar.co.uk for calculations of car benefits and all these are classed as cars, but I assume they are the same.

There is a thread online at :
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic74515.html

I'm sure you must have come across this.

I thought HMRC were to update the list of vans following the Coca-Cola case?

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By xlendi
21st Jun 2024 10:11

I wonder whether this is useful
The Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) published a series of manuals listing all the technical requirements for individual vehicle approval (IVA).
There are different manuals for different types of vehicle:

M1 vehicles - passenger cars
M2 and M3 vehicles - buses and coaches
N1 vehicles - light goods vehicles (up to 3,500kgs)
N2 and N3 vehicles - heavy goods vehicles (over 3,500kgs)
O1, O2, O3 and O4 vehicles - light and heavy trailers

Is the Defender M1 or N1

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By JWBCORP
21st Jun 2024 12:15

Is it of a construction primarily suited to the conveyance of goods and burden? If so, its a van. 2 seats, no rear side windows and a large loading area - I would treat it as a goods vehicle for tax purposes.

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By JD
21st Jun 2024 13:30

Van - agreed as part of dealing with a VAT/PAYE enquiry for a client. However, there is the added challenge of unhelpful clients (none of mine fortunately) who then undertake a later conversion, putting in a second row of seats and rear windows.

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By Jack the Lad
21st Jun 2024 16:52

I believe it is clear from the above replies so far that you are safe in treating it as a commercial vehicle.
I would add a factor: the use to which it is to be put is important. If strictly commercial use with negligible private usage, then you can safely claim back the VAT on purchase (if new), 100% income or corporation tax relief, and there should be no benefit in kind if you have another vehicle for private use. If challenged by HMRC, you will have strong grounds to argue for your claim.
If you are taking it home at night, and using it for private mileage, then there will be a BIK equivalent to van charge.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
21st Jun 2024 23:35

Payload well over a tonne, only two seats - it's a commercial vehicle for me.

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