Moan re non issue of pension P60

Moan re non issue of pension P60

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I have a client who recieves a pension from The Financial Assistance Scheme. The FAS pension and the State Pension exceed the Personal Allowance so coding notice has been issued and tax deducted. However the FAS are not issuing monthly payslips or P60s. For 2021-22, while client still trading, I used the figures provided by HMRC to complete his return.

My client was perplexed as to why the monthly amount from FAS was less in 2022-23 and I explained how the PAYE systen worked but I wish to prepare an annual schedule using the figures to demonstrate to him, but without a P60 I do not have the gross or tax figures.

My client telephoned FAS and was told they keep the records digitally and do not use paper. My client has not given his email to FAS so no P60 had been issued to him. He does have an email he uses on a phone but as he has always been a worrier I would accept his word that FAS have not got his email and have not sent him a P60. FAS have promised to send a paper P60 to him.

The comment from the call handler was they have 100's of thousands of pensioners, implying that they can not send out P60's to that number. 

I was under the belief that if tax was deducted a P60 should be supplied. We seem to be creating a world that the current pensioners with varying competences with the digital world are being denied information they are entitled to.

 

Replies (9)

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By David Ex
26th May 2023 16:55

CJaneH wrote:

The comment from the call handler was they have 100's of thousands of pensioners, implying that they can not send out P60's to that number. 

What a ridiculous thing to say! “It’s too costly to comply with our legal obligations”!

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Replying to David Ex:
Tornado
By Tornado
26th May 2023 17:35

They are not alone, the biggest pension payer in the UK does not issue P60's.

I am, of course, talking about our Government and State Pensions. Even if they do not issue a P60 (because they do not deduct tax) they could at least issue a statement to each Pensioner confirming the amount of pension paid to them during the year ended 5th April each year.

They are the pioneers of MTD, for goodness sake, so it must be dead easy to do this little thing.

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By Not Anonymous
26th May 2023 17:58

Is there a legal obligation on a pension scheme to provide a P60?

As they are running payroll software it presumably wouldn't be too onerous (although potentially costly in postage) but that doesn't make it a legal requirement.

Unlike for an employer (who has deducted tax at some point in the year).

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Replying to Not Anonymous:
RLI
By lionofludesch
26th May 2023 19:36

Not Anonymous wrote:

Is there a legal obligation on a pension scheme to provide a P60?

If they deduct tax, yes.

If they don't, no.

I had a client who had a small military pension who didn't get a P60. I wrote to some Government department asking for one and they wrote back pointing out that they had no legal obligation to issue one. I wrote in and asked them how much it was and they wrote back with the pension paid.

Four letters where one P60 would've sufficed.

But that's the Government. Tax just has to be taxing.

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By Hugo Fair
26th May 2023 19:05

There are several interwoven strands here ...

1. Is FAS somehow exempt either from processing under PAYE or some of the PAYE obligations?
A: honestly don't know - but it seems unlikely (given both what I see from other pension schemes and that they are processing 'pay' under a tax code).

2. Does an organisation processing a PAYE scheme have an obligation to provide pay recipients with payslips (strictly statements of pay) and an annual P60?
A: Yes

3. Is there a centrally prescribed medium & channel for delivering this 'provision'?
A: Yes, but it doesn't have to be on paper (subject to various requirements to provide an alternative to portals/emails/etc where appropriate to needs of recipient).

4. Do most pension schemes only provide the 'forms' digitally by default?
A: Yes, but many are a lot more pro-active than it sounds as though was the case with FAS at making pensioners aware of these other options.

5. Is a failure to make it easy to opt for any of this 'paperwork' to be sent to a member through the post a transgression of various legislative requirements?
A: Yes - but who's got the time as an individual to take a large organisation to task (and who in authority cares)?

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By Not Anonymous
26th May 2023 19:20

Hugo,

What's the legislation for pension schemes to provide a P60??

I could only track down a requirement for an employer to provide one. And even that excludes employees who didn't have tax deducted at some point.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2682/regulation/67

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Replying to Not Anonymous:
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By Hugo Fair
26th May 2023 21:00

With the rather major caveat that (as TD continually & correctly reminds me) I'm prone to relying on a hybrid of logic/pragmatism/experience rather than source legislation ... my initial reaction was 'because pension providers are treated as employers and pensioners as employees' (aka that's what I've always done).

But that's not really helpful or definitive. So I had a quick look at The Income Tax (Pay As You Earn) Regulations 2003 and found Section 11-(1):

"Application to pension payers and pensioners
11.—(1) For the purposes of these Regulations—
(a) pension payers are treated as employers;
(b) pensioners are treated as employees; and
(c) a pensioner’s “employment” with a pension payer starts when the pension starts and ends when the pension ends."

Parking that, I then moved (as you did) to Section 67 which seems to confirm the requirement to provide a P60 (albeit as you say only when the employer was required to deduct tax from relevant payments *at any time* during that tax year).

I was aware of that caveat (but there's only so many details usually worth putting in these responses - especially in this case where OP seems to indicate that tax *was* deducted).

[I did once have an 'interesting' argument as to whether a P60 was still mandated when tax had been deducted but later rebated during the course of the tax year - leaving a total of zero deductions - but can't recall the outcome!]

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Replying to Hugo Fair:
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By Dib
30th May 2023 13:38

I had occasion to access one of my pensions a few years ago to get hold of some of the lump sum. I took the lump sum money but didn't go into draw-down. Every year I get a P60 showing zero pay and zero tax deducted. I duly enter the information on my tax return...

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By Open all hours
30th May 2023 11:49

Also getting a little tired of interest certificates which omit the account holders name(s). Presume the data compliance officers took charge at any early stage of the operation.

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