Moving payroll to lying week and furlough

Can a furlough week be used to move a payroll to a lying week basis?

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For example.  A company's working week is Monday to Friday.  The employees are paid on the Friday of that same week for work done in that week.  All the employees are on furlough until 20th July when they return to work.  Normally that week they would be paid on Friday 24th July for work done or furlough if on flexible furlough. To move the payroll to a lying week basis can one complete week's furlough be paid for week ending 24th July (and reclaimed) and then the following week, ending 31st July, employees paid for actual hours worked or flexibly furloughed during the previous week ending 24th July and furlough reclaimed?  I'm not sure it can be done as it seems like a double furlough reclaim but having difficulty reaching a conclusing over discussions on this one.  Thanks

Replies (14)

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By Adam12345
01st Jul 2020 19:34

If you change how you pay your staff it has very little relevance to what you can reclaim under the furlough scheme.

Reading the above, you would be over claiming, so the answer is no.

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Replying to Adam12345:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Jul 2020 13:43

If lying week means week in hand then I agree
CJRS is based on payments made.
Current wages appear to be impossible to calculate until Friday evening, or am I missing something?

EDIT
looks like lots of Scots websites use the term "Lying week"

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Barbara G
01st Jul 2020 20:25

They're processed based on pre-set rota, which can mean changes the following week to compensate, which is time consuming. Changing the process/payment date to a few days later than the end of the pay reference period would be much more efficient. I think the difficulty, when I had tried to seek opinions outside of this web, was the payment date. Some considered furlough based on the actual date of the payment for wages, not the period of work to which it applies, hence the confusion.

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Replying to Barbara G:
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By SXGuy
02nd Jul 2020 07:28

You missed out the one that's actually correct. Furlough is based on the period you are paid. Not the period you have worked. And not the payment date.

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Replying to SXGuy:
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By Barbara G
02nd Jul 2020 13:06

Thanks, so does that mean I can claim furlough for both weeks? Usually when we move the payroll to a lying week basis the employees are not paid for a week, which is what is causing the confusion over what can be claimed on furlough

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By SteveHa
02nd Jul 2020 13:36

Irrespective of furlough, I do hope that you have agreed this change of contract with employees, and have not unilaterally imposed it.

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Barbara G
02nd Jul 2020 13:44

Yes, it has been agreed with employees. However, the issue still remains, can we reclaim furlough for the week under normal circumstances, without this coronavirus and JRS, they would be paid nothing for one week so that the payment can be moved to a lying week basis, and also claim furlough for the hours they didn't work (as they will be on flexi furlough) for the same week? Sorry, I'm getting confused.

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Replying to Barbara G:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Jul 2020 13:48

This seems to keep coming back to double furlough claim. Is that the sole reason for the discussions?

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Replying to SteveHa:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Jul 2020 13:45

and who are you discussing it with? I assume NOT the employees

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Barbara G
02nd Jul 2020 14:20

The employees are being paid a full week's holiday entitlement accrued to date. Holiday entitlement can be furloughed (I've checked with HMRC) and the employer tops up the difference. The employees are then being paid the following week for the hours they actually worked or furlough claimed for the hours they didn't work. For example, tax week 17, they are processed for one week's holiday and the employer pays them. Then tax week 18, they are processed for the hours they worked during week 17 and also the furlough pay relating to flexible furlough. I am assuming under these circumstances furlough cannot be claimed for the full week's holiday pay, which was processed to move the payroll to a lying week and cannot also be claimed for the furlough hours during that same week when they were actually on flexi furlough. Sorry if I'm making this all so complicated. Also, they can't be moved to a monthly payroll as they are low paid workers who couldn't afford to wait longer than a week for their money. Thanks

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Replying to Barbara G:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Jul 2020 14:29

Holiday pay does not appear in the question.

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By tom123
02nd Jul 2020 13:53

Ignoring furlough - why not move to monthly?

I have done this for various settings, and (if done well) employees almost always appreciate it.

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Replying to tom123:
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By Paul Crowley
02nd Jul 2020 14:26

Agree completely
now down to just 2 weeklies

Issue is often that some trades prefer to use their cash up on wages, because it saves bank charges

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Replying to Paul Crowley:
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By Barbara G
02nd Jul 2020 14:52

Replying to Barbara G:
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By SXGuy
02nd Jul 2020 07:28
You missed out the one that's actually correct. Furlough is based on the period you are paid. Not the period you have worked. And not the payment date.

So what's the final answer re the furlough reclaim. As far as I am aware furlough is based on the period you are paid "for", ie., the pay reference period. Not the period you are paid. So, to close it all off. Would I be correct in thinking that to pay employees one week's pay, and also pay for the hours worked during that same pay period, I can only claim furlough for one of those scenarios, regardless of what the pay date is. To claim for both is a double claim. Thanks guys. I'll try not to annoy you any longer with this one.

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